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UPB with the Omni

leeleses

Member
So this will be my first post at cocoon tech!

I’ve been experimenting with UPB on my Omni IIe, letting the Omni configure the devices, and then tweaking the devices with upstart. I’m pretty confident that I have it configured correctly and have all the firmware updates I’m running like 4.0B for the controller. Can someone tell me if UPB installations that are not controlled by the Omni run faster than an UPB installation that’s being controlled by the Omni?

I’m thinking about going back to X10 because it takes 10 to 15 seconds or more to get some of the commands to go through and I find it to be too slow and annoying. Can someone share their experience with me please in using UPB with the Omni?

Again the question being are there other types of UPB installations that don’t use the Omni that run faster than this?
 
Thank you!
 

JonW

Senior Member
10 - 15 seconds is way too long and means you have an issue somewhere.  Are the delays when you press a UPB switch button and have a scene activated or are they when the Omni sends a command?  Are you using a software front-end to the Omni?
 
If scene activation is taking that long from a switch, then you have a lot of powerline noise and UPB is resending the commands to get them through.  If it is when you activate something via the Omni, then you may have a programming loop/logic issue that is slowing your panel. 
 
UPB device activation is near instantaneous when transmitting stand-alone, and only very slightly delayed (less than a second) when activated from the Omni.
 
Note that most UPB communication is directly between devices (using links for scenes) and the Omni is only tracking their status.  The only time the Omni is involved in sending commands to activate devices is when you have something scheduled (e.g. outside lights on at night) or trigger logic (e.g. activate closet light when door opens).
 

ano

Senior Member
leeleses said:
I’m thinking about going back to X10 because it takes 10 to 15 seconds or more to get some of the commands to go through and I find it to be too slow and annoying. Can someone share their experience with me please in using UPB with the Omni?
UPB can easily send 10 commands per second, which is typically 20 to 40 times faster than X-10.  A UPB command with latency should max. out at 0.2 seconds.  Sounds like you have other problems.
 

ano

Senior Member
I just used Snaplink on my phone to turn on a light. So Snaplink to Omni to UBP transmitter to light. I'd guess at a total of 0.4sec.
 

pete_c

Guru
Best to run Upstart diagnostics to check your UPB network.
 
Here control UPB switches via the OmniPro 2 panel, Homeseer Omni Software, Homeseer UPB plugin,  and Home Assistant Omnilinkbridge and UPB software.
 
I do not see any speed differences in control relating to the above mentioned.
 

leeleses

Member
Hi everybody!

Again I really appreciate your responses. I’m pretty busy at work, but I am going to try to look in Upstart to see if there’s possibly noise that’s interfering with the UPB causing it to send the commands multiple times.

Does anyone know if a command is not received in UPB does it automatically re-broadcast it a few times until it is received?

I live in a row house, so it’s possible that one of my neighbors has some type of noise that is bleeding over into my house. You’re getting into some serious electrician issues then. I know our transformer is at the end of our block.  I would think that once the power is transformed it just comes down the entire row. I’m not sure how you can isolate noise on the line in my situation? I know I have a fairly well grounded 200 amp service panel.

Does anybody else have any ideas other than noise what the problem could be? And how you would possibly begin to diagnose it?

 
 

kurtmccaslin

Active Member
How many UPB devices do you have on your system?    It is possible that you are getting too much crosstalk on your network that is slowing communication.
 

ano

Senior Member
leeleses said:
Does anyone know if a command is not received in UPB does it automatically re-broadcast it a few times until it is received?
So lets start with something, noise isn't usually a UPB problem.  It was but X-10, but typically not for UPB.  Its possible but not probable.  Noise means some other source of electrical signal is preventing you from hearing the desired signal. Yes, I have heard of cases of noise, Panasonic Inverter Microwaves, and some OLED TVs.  If you are not getting signal near these things, then maybe.
 
So otherwise the problem is a lack of signal.  If your radio fades away in your car, do you say the cause is noise?  If its not during a thunderstorm, then probably no.
 
There are two causes of signal problems, signal blockers, and a lack of signal transmission between phases.  Things like UPS power supplies can filter UPB signal out, BEFORE and AFTER the power supply. Like noise, this usually only occurs in one area of the house near it.  
 
But the biggest problem is signal across phases.  Do you have 3-phase or 120V split-phase?  UPStart tells you which devices are on the same phase (S) or other phase (O).  Do the problems occur always on the other phase?  In any case its ALWAYS best to invest in a UPB repeater.  They make split-phase repeaters: http://www.pcslighting.com/pulseworx/products/tools/spr   OR 3-phase repeaters:  http://www.pcslighting.com/pulseworx/products/tools/tpr
 
These go in the breaker panel, and you may need an electrician to install them.  Technically a repeater may slow down signal a small bit, but you will never notice it. 
 
Oh, forgot to add, YES you can change the number of signal retries, in UPStart, but DON'T increase it past 2, there is no benefit. 
 

leeleses

Member
Thanks guys! 
 
Believe it or not, I only have 1 UPB device installed right now, it's a lamp module.
 
Other than UPB commands the Omni IIe seems to be responding fine, with 1 second or less for all commands.
 
I have an X-10 coupler/repeater installed, but no UPB coupler or repeater.
 
The room I always have trouble with (X10 & UPB) is the longest wire run in the small row house, with several rooms on it, and lots of splices.
 
I'm always juggling so many things!  I have to see if I can find the PIM and cables I was using for Upstart.
 
I'm also going to move the lamp module to a different room, and see if it responds any better!
 
I don't have any obvious noise sources like you mentioned.
 
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