UPB

Digger

Senior Member
It just works


EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except for those dang delays, which are a feature - though fixed in newer non-upgradable firmware. :p

I could live with delays in UPB. I could live with soft paddles in Insteon if they actually worked when pressed. I can live with LED color and brightness inconsistencies, I can live with paddle color inconsistencies, I can live with a few bad switches (5% or so it happens). I can live with 20 mins on hold occasionally waiting for customer service.

I cant live with bad switches under warranty not being replaced or QC problems not addressed within a reasonable amount of time.
 

sloop

Active Member
It just works


EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except for those dang delays, which are a feature - though fixed in newer non-upgradable firmware. :p
why does everyone that uses insteon rag on upb? and they only have one gripe - response delay

well it sounds like that is a minor annoyance because you can rely that it will work - with insteon, its a craplinc shoot - i guess we need yet another thread to list the many, MANY problems with insteon
 

MikeB

Active Member
why does everyone that uses insteon rag on upb? and they only have one gripe - response delay

well it sounds like that is a minor annoyance because you can rely that it will work - with insteon, its a craplinc shoot - i guess we need yet another thread to list the many, MANY problems with insteon

I don't see many people rag on UPB at all. It's just that a lot of people hate switch delays (and I'm one of them). But do a search, there have been plenty of people with UPB powerline issues, just like Insteon.

I do think their physical switches are higher quality, though, but at an additional cost.

Software support is also a bit lacking.
 

sloop

Active Member
i disagree - and i have never seen a upb switch - cite the customer satisfaction statistics for us

my opinion was formed by my bad insteon experience and by noting all the 'i dumped insteon' threads
 

MikeB

Active Member
i disagree - and i have never seen a upb switch - cite the customer satisfaction statistics for us

my opinion was formed by my bad insteon experience and by noting all the 'i dumped insteon' threads

I'm not going to do a search for you, do it yourself.
 

Event5

Active Member
why does everyone that uses insteon rag on upb? and they only have one gripe - response delay

well it sounds like that is a minor annoyance because you can rely that it will work - with insteon, its a craplinc shoot - i guess we need yet another thread to list the many, MANY problems with insteon

I don't see many people rag on UPB at all. It's just that a lot of people hate switch delays (and I'm one of them). But do a search, there have been plenty of people with UPB powerline issues, just like Insteon.

I do think their physical switches are higher quality, though, but at an additional cost.

Software support is also a bit lacking.

Mike, I do not beleive that the UPB powerline issues are "just like Insteon" When PCS developed UPB they must have looked at X10 and said "what do we need to do to improve PLC" One improvement was the signal strength. 40+ volts. The signal from one UPB device can travel nearly 2 miles I have been told. Yes there are devices out there that do kill the UPB signal, but there are far fewer problems with UPB than with Insteon.
Insteon stayed with the 4 volt transmission of X10 and as I see it did a "work around" with making every device a repeater. If the signal was strong enough to begin with you wouldn't need all those repeated transmissions.
I live 15 minutes from Smarthome Headquarters in Irvine and looked at Insteon before going with UPB. For the size installation I was going to do (90 devices) The manual programming that Insteon had at the time looked very cumbersom and at the same time the programming software for UPB was free and available.
I also had previous experience with the quality of Smarthome products vs. the quality of PCS products. Currently the PCS switches have a 5 year warrenty.

I really hope Smarthome can turn this thing around and get you guys a solid protocol, so you can move on to more satisfying HA stuff.

Dave
 

MikeB

Active Member
I'm sorry, you're right - I shouldn't have said "just like Insteon" because I do know that UPB puts out a stronger signal.

I was just trying to imply that UPB also has signal issues caused by interfering devices, and without searching I know I've read at least several threads on here about people discussion issues.
 

upstatemike

Senior Member
why does everyone that uses insteon rag on upb? and they only have one gripe - response delay

well it sounds like that is a minor annoyance because you can rely that it will work - with insteon, its a craplinc shoot - i guess we need yet another thread to list the many, MANY problems with insteon

response delay is not the only gripe... just the most important (showstopper) one. If it wasn't for that I would probably be using UPB today and working around the other gripes.

Other gripes include:

High cost (now applies to Insteon as well but at the time I was choosing Insteon was affordable)

No path for integration with X-10 to ease the transition (there are translators now but were not at the time I was choosing)

Switches are physically bigger which is a big factor in my ancient electrical boxes.

Lack of screw-in modules (some of my wiring is not accessible for inline module solutions for some on wall fixtures).

Lack of level displays on dimmer switches.

LED color options (Red and Green are so last century! Blue and white are more up to date)

No lights on keypad buttons... Insteon keypads can be used as annunciators and general HA keypad interfaces with feedback.

Making a tabletop controller using a keypad and additional enclosure is crazy expensive. (I use a lot of tabletop controllers)

I like the idea of using virtual 3-way configurations with all master switches instead of having to deal with hard wired slave switches that never seem to look or operate exactly the same as the masters. If you have a good technology why not use it consistently instead of having different wiring in different situations? (If the pricing is reasonable, the use of a full master as a 3-way slave is not an issue... and if pricing is not reasonable I would not be considering the technology in the fist place)

The idea that you can switch any load with a triac if you just program it to act a switch is not true. (The HAI relay switches were not yet out when I was choosing a platform). There are a lot of things that just do not play well with triacs. PCS seems to want to limit the application of UPB to their vision of what you should want to control with it.

....so there is more than just the delay to bug people about UPB. As far as making a list of issues with Insteon, you can search on my threads to find what you need for that pretty quickly. I certainly have not minimized the the problems with Insteon or failed to list them. I am not very happy with either protocol right now but at least with Insteon (purchasing at the original price point and even then taking advantage of sales to reduce the price further) I feel the situation is acceptable. I would not invest in either of these protocols at their current prices unless all of the issues each has were addressed.
 

MikeB

Active Member
Switches are physically bigger which is a big factor in my ancient electrical boxes.

I didnt' like the idea of stuffing my Insteon switches in my boxes. Especially in 2 or 3 gang boxes, you pretty much have to stuff everything in and I hate that. And my house was built in 2005.

I can't imagine trying to stuff something even BIGGER in.
 
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