Upstart swapping ID and name of some devices after programming of scenes


New Member
After hiring and paying two different installers/programmers to set up an HAI system in my home, i am still struggling to get the system to work properly.  Tired of paying, I have spent a hundred hours learning to use the software in order to attempt to get the system working properly myself.  I have fixed most of the problems myself, but I have one nagging and persistent glitch to conquer still.
I am running PC Access version and UPStart version 8.1 Build 79 for Windows 7 with an Omni Pro II system.  The devices are all HAI UPB switches and controllers.
The problem I am having is with the links the last programmer set up in UPStart.  Every one of the links has at least one (sometimes more) controller, preset, and indicator that says it is one thing, but shows up as something completely different when viewed under the ID tab in the edit device window.  I believe this is causing the problems I am encountering when different scenes are activated by controllers or automation.  No matter how many times I edit and correct these in the scene builder, they continually revert back to the incorrect ID entries i am seeing in the devices' edit window.  I have to believe there is something in the setup that is triggering this to happen, but up to this point I have not been able to identify what it is.
I may be way off base here, but my suspicion is that this problem has something to do with the five 8 button house controllers, which are all programmed to toggle the same scene for each specific button,  The programmer has stacked all five house controllers together in the same eight scenes (links 193 through 200) in UPStart.  When I look at the reservation list under the Scene UPB link list in PC Access i see that links 193 through 200 are reserved for house controller number 1, buttons 1 through 8, then links 201 through 208 for house controller number 2, and so on.
My question about this is can all five controllers occupy the same eight reserved links (193 through 200) in PC Access when they are programmed to activate the same scene for each button, or do they have to be separated so that each controller and button are using a different reserved link?
Needless to say, I would greatly appreciate any light, no pun intended, anyone could shed on this matter. 
Hi and welcome.
There two ways you can control UPB with an HAI controller; HLC which is the Leviton method of using UPB, and straight UPB where UPStart does most of the heavy lifting.  To use the HLC method, you need to have Leviton switches and controllers, which it sounds like you have.  There are some exception to this, but for now lets take it as fact.
So many, if not most installers would use the HLC method because it works really well, and in this case, UPStart takes a minor role.  In normal UPB mode, UPStart takes the leading role. You have to be in either HLC mode or normal mode, at least to start.  At least what you pick will lead the rest of the conversation.
Now for your question, can several controllers occupy the same links? The answer is Yes in HLC mode, you can.  All the House controllers will mirror each other.
So how are HLC mode vs. normal mode different? With HLC mode the controller (OMNI) reads the state of the switches and keeps it all in sync. You don't get this very nice feature in normal UPB mode.
So we getting off-topic a bit, so lets back up. Who is in charge of your system now, an installer or you?  Honestly if you are paying installers, they need to fix it and we can talk about how you later can observe what they did.  If they are out-of-the picture, its pretty easy to set it up for you once all the switches are installed. The OMNI actually will program your system for you.  That is whats neat about HLC. You can still use UPStart, but you don't need to. 
So help us understand what is going on.
Thanks for your response. 
The installer has moved on to other work and is out of the picture. Can't find anybody else close by, so it is just me now.
Yes, they are all Leviton HAI switches and controllers, and all are installed and programmed to some extent already. 
I am struggling to master all the terminology.  HLC mode vs. normal mode?  i am not sure what I am using at this point.  If HLC mode is the use of automation blocks then, yes there are lots of those.  Or is there a setting somewhere in the Omni controller setup that determines which mode it is using?  And can this be seen from a PC interface using PC Access?
So yes, there is a setting on the OMNI for "UPB" or "HLC."  I think they still use the same acronym even though the H in HLC is for HAI. If you look in PC Access, under "setup" then "units" then the "House Code"
So installers likely use HLC, so I would stick to that unless you have a reason not to. HLC has room controllers and house controllers. The room controller gives you 4 scenes per room, the house controller can control 8 rooms, or you can see the status of 8 rooms. So for now, turn off UPStart because the OMNI can program the Leviton switches for you. Yes you can use UPStart, but you have to let the OMNI take main control and you only use UPStart if you need to tweak something.
Download and read this PDF. It will be your HLC bible or at least a start.
Once you have read it, read it again.
Okay, i checked and it shows it is in HLC mode.
Thanks for the link to the Worthington document, but I had found and read this previously and will read it again a few more times.
I am still trying to wrap my head around the house and room controllers and how they should be grouped.  FYI...My house controllers are set up to mirror each other and I do not have a room controller for every room.
So, I have a rather long question which relates back to the problem i described in my original post.
Can a house controller(s) be programmed to combinations of lights from different rooms on the same button from within and/or outside the group of eight rooms (64 units), where some of those lights are being used in other rooms controlled by a different button on the house controller(s).  For example, on one of the buttons on a house controller I have a virtual room call NIGHT ROOM, which picks up lights from different rooms all over the house.  Some of the lights are also programmed to be used by other buttons on the house controller(s).  Does doing this, learning a light to more than one button on a house contoller(s), create problems like the one I described in my original post, i.e. UPStart confusing and mislabeling some devices when they are viewed in the edit device window.
I realize you are saying stay away from UPStart, but it seems to me either something has been set up wrong on my system, which is causing this to happen, or else UPStart just isn't up to the task of properly displaying the devices and their configuration in my network.  Maybe its just the latter?
So HLC saves you a lot of time, but it does have its limitations.  How it is designed is you put a room controller in rooms you want to control, and home controllers where you want to monitor a room. The room controller can control 7 lights, and they can be in different rooms if you want. They can control "virtual" rooms as well, like your ceiling fans can be a "room," outdoor lights can be a room, etc.  So for each "room controller" you can have 4 scenes, in addition to all on and all off. In our kitchen we have dinning, cooking, party, and normal evening scenes.  So each scene can control up to the seven lights with one press of the scene button. You can also dim or brighten any scenes with the top and bottom buttons.
The house controllers are very limited. They monitor 8 rooms, if any room has a light on, the home controller lights for that room turn on. If all lights are off, that room light will be off. The room controller can ONLY either turn ALL room lights ON in a room or turn ALL room lights OFF in a room. Not lots of control. So can a house controller button control lights in two rooms?  Yes just like a room controller can control lights in two rooms, but AGAIN, a house controller can only turn ALL lights ON or ALL off.
So with this system you don't control the lights, you control the "scene."  There is lots more happening under the covers, because the OMNI keeps all lights in-sync.  If you ever want to change a scene, you just set the lights manually, and the OMNI reporgrams the switches. No UpStart needed. Very nice for non-technical people. HLC is something you could sell a house with and easily explain to the new people how it works.
If you don't use HLC, you have more control, but then YOU have to design how it all works, and you have to program every switch with UpStart, and you have to figure out how to keep it all in sync. 
I used to use the UPB way, and it was never as nice as it is with HLC, but HLC is more or less a take it or leave it system. You CAN tweak things in UpStart but you have to learn LOTS about HLC works and work within its rules, so what you can tweak is quite limited. If your a person that needs to do this and that and this outside of HLC, then don't use HLC. But unless you like LOTS of programming and work, I won't pick that choice.
In my experience, I've used the 8-button house status switch in two ways - as a "scene" controller and as a "room status" switch.  This is how I understand it works:
 - The "scene" controller is just that, you push a button and a lighting "scene" is activated.  If you set one of the regular light switches to activate a scene that is programmed in the "scene" controller (using the "double tap" feature), or activate the scene from the OP2 controller, the LED behind the "scene" controller button will light up.  I believe the LED behind the scene controller button stays lit until you press the "scene" controller button or send the "scene off" command from a switch or the OP2 controller.  If any switch that is part of that scene is used individually (at any time) the "scene" controller won't change it's LED light behind the button.  The LEDs behind the scene controller buttons only change with scene activation / deactivation.
 - The "room status" switch monitors and controls all the switches in a single room.  If any switch is on in a room, the LED behind the button will light up.  If all the switches in a room are turned off, the LED behind the button will turn off.  If the LED behind the button is off, and you press the button, all switches in that room will go to 100%.  If the LED behind the button is on, and you press the button, all switches in that room will go off.  (You may be able to set an "on" scene for the button so the lights don't just go to 100%, but I've never used it in this way.)
Now, all this being said, it sounds to me like there are a some very complex "scenes" being planned.  It can be very difficult to keep track of scene numbers, switches, light levels, etc, when setting this up - not to mention making scene changes, like you want to change a specific light level.  I can imagine this can turn into a "scene" programming nightmare.  I've found it easier and more straight forward to us the "automation" programming lines in the OP2 controller to make complex scenes.  
For example, I have a weekday morning wake-up scene.  As a brief overview:
1. I have a "user setting" time called "Auto Wake-up". This allows me to have a morning "wakeup" time which I can control from a 5.7e touch screen.
2. I have a flag called "Auto Wake On/Off FLAG".  I have a button on the 5.7e touch screen that allows me to turn this flag on and off.
3. I have program code in the OP2 controller like this:
TIMED Auto Wake-Up Time Set MTWTF--
        THEN SET LIGHTING LEVEL Kitchen High Hats TO 40%
        THEN SET LIGHTING LEVEL Kitchen Counter Lights TO 50%
        THEN SET LIGHTING LEVEL Kitchen Breakfast Bar High Hats TO 30%
So, as long as the FLAG is ON, when the correct time is reached in the user setting (that you pick and enter on the 5.7e, say 5:30am), the kitchen lights come on in the "scene" I want.  Obviously I can add any switches in any room that I want, and at any light level (bathroom, hallways, etc) - complete flexibility - and much, much easier to keep track of / make changes.  My "house status switches" all light the "kitchen" room button, and I usually use the button to turn all the lights off in the room.  I don't use the button to turn the kitchen lights on; I just never did.  You can repeat this process for a daily "sunset" scene plan as well as a daily "sleep" scene plan.  It really is an awesome way to go.
So let's talk Pro's and Con's:
1. Con - this can take up a lot of programming lines in the controller.  If you are running out of programming line space, you may need to use scenes.
2. Con - the lights will activate in the sequence you are programming.  So, in my example, the high-hats will light first, then the counter lights, then the breakfast bar lights.  It's not a big time lapse between the different switches being activated, maybe 1-2 seconds (maybe less, I never timed it).  If you use an actual "scene" to activate the lights, they all activate at the same time.
3. Pro - lighting scene setup and changes are easy and straight forward. You don't have a complex scene map to remember/figure everything out.
4. Pro - you can add additional items to the commands run, especially activating music (station and volume level) in the rooms you want.
5. Pro - learning and using the OP2 for automation will allow you to do everything easier.  Once you realize how the OP2 automation code works, you can do lighting scenes for when you open a door, enter a room, etc - basically control your lighting in more ways than just from the scene switch.
I enjoy making house automation as seamless as possible.  When I get home at night, the sunset scene is already on, so driveway lights, outdoor sconces, and foyer lights are all at preset levels.  When I press the garage door opener button, and the overhead door zone goes "not ready", the garage lights, mud room and kitchen lights come on to preset levels.  I used to also activate the sound system (preset station and volume levels) when I had NuVo, but I haven't figured this out for the Total Control yet.  It's another excellent automation event to add to the OP2.
I hope this helps.