Water Shut off Valve Rant - sort of...

[gatchel]

OK. Whiney rant ON...

So I see the HAI water valve partner on the portal page and I know about the ELK WSV.

Why is it that you have to spend hundreds of dollars for a water shut off valve (I haven't seen the HAI pricing yet but that fancy valve looks like an expensive one) and the manufacturers can't give you a simple dry contact or even better a form C dry contact output. Is it really that difficult to integrate this into the valve? I wouldn't think so. Maybe someone in the "know" can shed some light on the topic.

I know it can be fixed with a simple relay but why? It doesn't make very much sense.

I could run an 18-4 to the valve and simply wire it in and not have to deal with how to make an external relay look nice or where to put it.

ELk, HAI, get with it...


OK rant off...

Seriously anyone have a clue? I am interested.

 

[Neurorad]

Get with what? With all the other companies that don't offer valves?

Article from current month's issue of Security Sales & Integration, covering flood/leak detection.

http://www.securitysales.com/Channel/System-Integration/Articles/2011/01/Tech-Talk-Just-Add-Water-for-More-RMR.aspx

Not many valves marketed for security systems.

Mentions a leak detection cable, called the Seahawk', from RLE Technologues, with EOL supervision. Can be direcly strapped to water pipes. Up to 300' in length.

 

[Desert_AIP]

The Watercop runs off a dry contact input for control and 110VAC power to open and close.
I have mine plugged into a 500 series UPS for backup power.

Watercop Pinout

Side note.
It's hard to tell from the pinout on the HAI valve whether it is a shuttle valve, like the Elk and Watercop that remain in the last state (open or close) regardless of power, or if it is a NC valve that requires constant power to keep open.
There's only a single input to "open" the valve, the other pins being + and - 12VDC and open and closed status.
If it is the latter, it is an inferior design and there are cheaper alternatives to the NC valve setup.

 

[electron]

The HAI valve retails around $560.

 

[apostolakisl]

The Elk-WSV is a heavy duty stainless steel device with a heavy duty motor, it really is substantial. The money you pay is not for fluff. I agree, it would be nice if if were say $100 cheaper, but it isn't absurd like the Carrier HVAC control module ($1500)!!!!

Why do you need a dry contact? The water valve turns on when you apply voltage to the control wire and turns off when not. So, any programs needing to know water status reference the Elk output state, no need for zone monitoring.

 

[gatchel]

Sorry . i thought this would be taken in a more humorous fashion.

I was simply whining about the fact that the valve all use a positive voltage output as a feedback or status. A dry contact would make it nice to send a status to ...well...anything and everything...

I guess I am used to working with others who get it, you know, the humor in such a minute savings on the manufacturing end of things to save a few bucks or even a few quarters to leave out the small relay that could make everyone's lives a little bit easier when wiring up one of these devices. That's really it.

It was meant more to be funny than to offend anyone.

I guess I'll have to keep the humor among the guys I work with everyday.

And $560 retail for the HAI valve?...(I have decided not to comment)

 

[apostolakisl]

Get the Elk-WSV, I don't think you will be disappointed. It is a beast.

And, I feel your pain, I rant to my employees at work and they don't understand either.

 

[Del91574]

And $560 retail for the HAI valve?...(I have decided not to comment)

It's HAI, gotta double the price on it.

 

[gatchel]

I'm not saying that these valves aren't worth the money. I'm saying that they could give you just a fraction of a bit more for your money.

I will be buying the Elk valve. Especially after reading Diggers post about the water sensor issue.


I have water sensors all over the place...no water valve. That make a lot of sense. I will also be installing a contactor on the well pump just in case the issue is before the water valve.

 

[nov0798]

Here ya go, electrically operated NO valve for 100 bucks

http://stcvalve.com/solenoid_valve_specifications_and_dimenisons_2SO_2WO.htm

http://stcvalve.com/STC-DOWNLOAD/2WO160-500.pdf

 

[electron]

FYI, I uploaded a quick video showing the ELK valve in action. As you can tell, it's a pretty large valve with a very strong motor:

ELK ELK-WSV Water Valve

 

[Digger]

Here ya go, electrically operated NO valve for 100 bucks

http://stcvalve.com/solenoid_valve_specifications_and_dimenisons_2SO_2WO.htm

http://stcvalve.com/STC-DOWNLOAD/2WO160-500.pdf

That is sort of an apples to oranges comparision. The ELK Valve and Watercop only energize momentarily to open or close the valve. The valves you note have to be energized to keep the valve closed. If power is lost the valve will open. With an ELK or Watercop valve and the valve is closed and power is lost it will stay closed.

That is an obvious difference. I would assume that there are more.

 

[nov0798]

What if the powers already out, when the Elk valve attempts to close?

 

[Digger]

What if the powers already out, when the Elk valve attempts to close?

It uses 12 Vdc so I would use a small 12 V supply with a battery backup. It wont take much to close the valve and then it will stay closed not drawing power.

 

[Ira]

For those of you who have automated the Elk valve, e.g., close the valve automatically when a leak is detected, how long do you keep the voltage applied when opening/closing it? Does the valve itself "break" the connection internally for the position it is in whenever it is fully open/closed so you can leave the controlling relay closed but still not be using any power at the valve?