Water shutoff valves

[mikesm]

Hi.  I'm building a  house and am installing water sensors all over the place, and hooking it all up to an elk system with a water shutoff valve.  My plumber also advises me to use a drain valve as well, as it's a 2 story house plus a basement and he thinks if a leak sprung on the basement or first floor, you'd end up with a lot of water leaking if you didn't also drain the water from the line (maybe in a couple locations) as well as cut off the input. 
 
I see folks here have recommended the use of the elk valve or the Greenfiield valve that Elk OEM's, both of which are expensive, esp if I use some for the drains as well.
 
Has anyone played with these stainless steel valves from US Solid?  I can't post a link since I am a newbie, but you can find them on amazon.com.
 
They are full port valves with PTFE seats which is nice, and have a variety of them at very good price points.  Reviews seem pretty good.
 
Thx
mike
 

 

[RAL]

I have no experience with the US Solid valves (which, despite the name, are made in China).   Note that the one you linked to is normally closed, and you apply power to them to open it.  And they are not meant for continuous duty.  So, it's the wrong valve to use for places where you normally want the water to be able to flow.  There are are other models that might be a better choice.

I have bought some similar inexpensive valves from BACOENG.  I sent them back after examining them.  Although the valve is supposed to have a limit switch which shuts off power once it is fully open or closed, it didn't do so.  And although the valve had 3/4" fittings, the opening through the ball was closer to 1/2".
 
You get what you pay for.  I'd recommend sticking with the Elk or Greenfield valves.

 

[cobra]

Interesting idea of using drain valves as well...  Not sure if it's needed though.  Generally in a house setup, your leaks occur when you are not present.  A single point leak doesn't drain the system because it's the only open spot (no air inlet from another valve, assuming water pressure is removed by a main supply valve.)
 
I guess you do want to be careful if you arrive to the house and find no water pressure.  If you happen to be at a high point in the system and turn on a faucet, the sound of air going in to the pipe will tell you that water is running out somewhere below...
 
The problem with the drain valve idea is that you will need a couple valves, a drain and vent.  Once you open them, the water will go to your drain and your leak, possibly draining half the system out your leak location (depending on the size of the leak.)  I think you are better off with just a shutoff.  Then you can investigate and try to turn off the leak location before you drain or re-pressurize the system.

 

[42etus]

Go with the Elk or Greenfield valve. They are really good valves and the cost is negligible  compared to the overall cost of your house.
 
cobra is spot on. You don't need an auto drain.

 

[ano]

I use WaterCop for the valve. Has one trigger to open, one to close, and a signal to monitor either. Open or closed will stay set without power.

 

[ComponY]

I use WaterCop for the valve. Has one trigger to open, one to close, and a signal to monitor either. Open or closed will stay set without power.

 
How do you monitor the status of the valve? I've heard that you can only control open/closed. Do you just use a trigger in the coding of your controller?

 

[ano]

How do you monitor the status of the valve? I've heard that you can only control open/closed. Do you just use a trigger in the coding of your controller?

There is one set of contacts for closed and one for open, and one trigger to open it and one trigger to close it. This is why I like it. There are separate open and close triggers, and there are separate open and closed status outputs.  And if the power should go out, the position stays the same.  It also only requires power to open or close it, so its easy to supply it with backup power.
 
I have my system close and open the valve once a month, and the contacts tell me it worked so I know the valve isn't stuck.

So you need two relays, one for open, one for closed. If you only have one relay to close it, you can press the open button on the valve. It takes two zones to monitor it, or if you only have one, that is OK too.

 

[ComponY]

There is one set of contacts for closed and one for open, and one trigger to open it and one trigger to close it. This is why I like it. There are separate open and close triggers, and there are separate open and closed status outputs.  And if the power should go out, the position stays the same.  It also only requires power to open or close it, so its easy to supply it with backup power.
 
I have my system close and open the valve once a month, and the contacts tell me it worked so I know the valve isn't stuck.

So you need two relays, one for open, one for closed. If you only have one relay to close it, you can press the open button on the valve. It takes two zones to monitor it, or if you only have one, that is OK too.

 
 
Oh interesting! Can you get me the model you use by chance? I know the inlets will be different, but that would be cool to have. What controller do you use to control the valve? A client of mine has a CAT 6 cable ran to where a valve should be. Maybe I can control it with the Omni Pro II.

 

[ano]

Oh interesting! Can you get me the model you use by chance? I know the inlets will be different, but that would be cool to have. What controller do you use to control the valve? A client of mine has a CAT 6 cable ran to where a valve should be. Maybe I can control it with the Omni Pro II.

Yes, I control it with a Omni Pro II and a relay board.
 
There are lots of models and I don't know them all but I use the standard one with what looks like an Ethernet jack on the front labeled "Aux I/O."  If you have a terminated CAT 6, you can plug it right in.
https://www.safehomeproducts.com/shp2/data/manuals/192506dcclassicmanuallr.pdf
So this is the manual.  Wiring is shown on page #12.
 
 
 
This valve also contains a receiver for their own transmitters. I use these but also use wireless flood sensors connected to the Omni Pro II. 

 

[kwschumm]

I was just looking at the Greenfield valve. It uses one trigger wire. When the output is ON (via a relay) the valve opens, so it is normally closed.
 
That seems easy enough. Assume it's closed and on any water alarm energize the output.
 
Power is supplied by a wall wart. If power is lost at the wall wart the valve stays where it is.
 
If the wall wart is powered and the trigger wire is off the valve closes.
 
Not sure if this is exactly what I want or if there's holes in the logic. Time to draw up a state machine and throw darts at the logic.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I use the Watercop as well.
I have it plugged into a UPS so it has battery backup like the Omni system.

 

[oldguy]

There is one set of contacts for closed and one for open, and one trigger to open it and one trigger to close it. This is why I like it. There are separate open and close triggers, and there are separate open and closed status outputs. And if the power should go out, the position stays the same. It also only requires power to open or close it, so its easy to supply it with backup power.

I have my system close and open the valve once a month, and the contacts tell me it worked so I know the valve isn't stuck.

So you need two relays, one for open, one for closed. If you only have one relay to close it, you can press the open button on the valve. It takes two zones to monitor it, or if you only have one, that is OK too.

I really appreciate your contribution to this thread.

I am a novice...a homeowner who can find no one locally to work on my HAI Omni Pro II system. My insurance company is forcing me to install an emergency water shutoff with sensors. Like you, I chose the Water Cop. Using your post, I have managed to configure two relays to open and close the valve successfully. I still need to test it by activating one of the water sensors, but I feel confident it will work when I do.

What I am stuck on his how to set up the two zones to give the status of the valve position. I have this part wired up now, but I am getting "Not Ready" as a status for both zones at the console. Maybe, I have not configured the zone types properly? What did you use as the zone types to get a status for the valve?

 

[dwalt]

Another vote here for the WaterCop. I use the Watercop Classic. It's the one with the RJ45 connector. I've installed it on many Omni and Elk systems.
You can use the power to the red/green leds for status. However, when the power is out to the watercop.... you won't see a valid status. I have a large number I put in in 2005 that are still working.

 

[oldguy]

Another vote here for the WaterCop. I use the Watercop Classic. It's the one with the RJ45 connector. I've installed it on many Omni and Elk systems.
You can use the power to the red/green leds for status. However, when the power is out to the watercop.... you won't see a valid status. I have a large number I put in in 2005 that are still working.

Thanks. The Water Cop I installed has the RJ45 connector. Yes, the LED on the valve control indicate status, but I wanted to be able to see the status on my consoles. After reading some of the threads on NO circuits for fire devices, I realized I needed to wire the resistors on the two new zones in parallel instead of series for NC, as the outputs for the Water Cop are NO dry contacts. Problem solved.