'Wireless' HA, Which Do You Use?
- Thread starter KenM
- Start date
Steve
Senior Member
Yeah, I'm not sure I agree with the list. As most know I am not a big fan of wireless but I do have a wireless receiver on the Elk and use some GE Caddx stuff. And it is for HA as well, like mailbox sensor, etc. So I think Caddx certainly belongs on the list also to be fair. And I also agree Insteon is not primarily wireless and in the same category of Zwave. It is first and foremost PLC based like UPB but with wireless extensions.
KenM
Active Member
OK,
I will try to clarify a little.
INSTEON is advertised as 'wireless'. Let us say, just for the sake of this poll, that 'wireless' means being able to control a remote device without having a directly wired control line. It could be power line or RF only.
Also, note to the moderator, as soon as I did this, I discovered that I could not add other choices, help? Please add more choices :blink: .
Ken
Edit added:
UPB already has two votes and it is not on my original list of choices.
I would also agree to starting over with a poll that has more choices.
I will try to clarify a little.
INSTEON is advertised as 'wireless'. Let us say, just for the sake of this poll, that 'wireless' means being able to control a remote device without having a directly wired control line. It could be power line or RF only.
Also, note to the moderator, as soon as I did this, I discovered that I could not add other choices, help? Please add more choices :blink: .
Ken
Edit added:
UPB already has two votes and it is not on my original list of choices.
I would also agree to starting over with a poll that has more choices.
Ooops, just voted Insteon (though am using UPB and X10 as well), but didn't see the "wireless" qualifier (which none of these are "wireless" - closest to that definition is Z-Wave, which also isn't truly wireless as it switches a wired power source).
This comes up a lot...maybe the definition should be "retrofit capable non hard wired control solutions" problems even with that one, but that's the first volley :blink:
This comes up a lot...maybe the definition should be "retrofit capable non hard wired control solutions" problems even with that one, but that's the first volley :blink:
HoustonFirefox
Active Member
I think the spirit of the poll is this:
Do you use a technology that uses wireless communications as its means of control (RF/Infrared, etc). Any device that uses the house powerline for communications would NOT be eligible under this poll I would think.
Of course all devices have to be plugged into an outlet or wired into the house to control thier respective devices, but the communications method is what I think the poll is about.
I'm a big Z-Wave fan and have been using it for over a year now with absolutely zero failures/glitches/communications issues. This is in stark contrast to my X10 experience where all of the controllers would fail/glitch over time.
Just my .02 :blink:
Do you use a technology that uses wireless communications as its means of control (RF/Infrared, etc). Any device that uses the house powerline for communications would NOT be eligible under this poll I would think.
Of course all devices have to be plugged into an outlet or wired into the house to control thier respective devices, but the communications method is what I think the poll is about.
I'm a big Z-Wave fan and have been using it for over a year now with absolutely zero failures/glitches/communications issues. This is in stark contrast to my X10 experience where all of the controllers would fail/glitch over time.
Just my .02 :blink:
IMO, the only real wireless product line (available to the DIY market) in this poll is Z-wave. Insteon RF still relies on the powerline to get the actual signal to the modules (correct me if I am wrong). ZigBee is wireless as well, but I haven't seen it for sale yet.
Dean Roddey
Senior Member
I think the 'which of these retro-fit friendly...' thing works well enough. However, UPB should be added to the list to make it really reflect reality, as well as RadioRA.
George West
Member
In addition to RadioRA is the AuroRA also from Lutron. Definitely for the retrofit market and price competitive at about $100/controlled node. My sister and BIL are/were a beta site and like it a lot. I'm not sure how DIY friendly Lutron is. They say the product is sold through high end lighting stores.
Also don't forget StarLite from CentraLite. Proprietary 2.4 GHz also intended for retrofit. Not sure what the attitude about DIY is. A data point is that it seems to be very easy to become a CentraLite channel partner. If I were going to do an RF/No Wires only solution for lighting, either Lutron or CentraLite is where I would start looking. Both companies have given a lot of thought to making the RF channel reliable.
ZigBee - Starting to see some home related products in Korea. In the US it is Control4 and Eaton. Eaton is selling the HomeHeartBeat into retail - CompUSA I think - now although the product is more about monitoring than control. No need to rehash the Control4/DIY issue.
A little off topic. If I was Eaton I would be trying to get support for HHB built into ELK and others as fast as I could.
George West
www.wtrs.net
Also don't forget StarLite from CentraLite. Proprietary 2.4 GHz also intended for retrofit. Not sure what the attitude about DIY is. A data point is that it seems to be very easy to become a CentraLite channel partner. If I were going to do an RF/No Wires only solution for lighting, either Lutron or CentraLite is where I would start looking. Both companies have given a lot of thought to making the RF channel reliable.
ZigBee - Starting to see some home related products in Korea. In the US it is Control4 and Eaton. Eaton is selling the HomeHeartBeat into retail - CompUSA I think - now although the product is more about monitoring than control. No need to rehash the Control4/DIY issue.
A little off topic. If I was Eaton I would be trying to get support for HHB built into ELK and others as fast as I could.
George West
www.wtrs.net
ChrisWalker
Active Member
The other thing to remember about Zigbee is that, unfortunately, it's not an interoperable standard today. Control4 and Eaton should really be listed as their own items and not as part of "Zigbee" since, of course, you can't mix devices from different manufacturers together.
The theory is that eventually there will be interoperable Zigbee devices, but I can't even imagine the marketing confusion of "Zigbee devices that work with Zigbee devices from other manufacturers" and "Zigbee devices that _don't_ work with Zigbee devices from other manfuacturers" will be.
Chris
The theory is that eventually there will be interoperable Zigbee devices, but I can't even imagine the marketing confusion of "Zigbee devices that work with Zigbee devices from other manufacturers" and "Zigbee devices that _don't_ work with Zigbee devices from other manfuacturers" will be.
Chris
George West
Member
Chris,ChrisWalker said:
Now I really believe you when you told me how much you were working at CES...
You missed a bunch of interesting stuff outside the Z-Wave world while shuttling between your booth and the Microsoft booth.
My real point above is that there are very few ZigBee products for Home Control on the US market today and that Control4 and Eaton can be said to be shipping about 100% of those. Control4 gets beat up here for their unwillingness to sell to the DIY market. I think I understand why they are going that way and even if I don't agree with them it is not my company so I don't get a vote.
Control4 is starting to open up their system so that the end customer can do more of the programming. This is not entirely DIY friendly although it is a start. BTW, Control4 is offering a service very much like the one from iControl and others for a much more attractive price.
The story that ZigBee does not provide an interoperable standard today is one that is growing a little thin. The market has evolved and this statement is no longer strictly true.
Specifically regarding Control4 and Eaton
Control4 is the tail that is waving the ZigBee dog these days. If there is a feature that is HA friendly in the ZigBee spec these days it is due to Control4 pushing it. BACNet in ZigBee? - pushed by Control4 and Johnson Controls.
Control4 also chose Ember as the long term provider of their ZigBee chips. They also use the Ember stack in their products. They are also driving the pricing for ZigBee chips very hard.
Any guesses about Eaton's chip supplier? Ember.
Eaton was showing in the Control4 partner pavillion in addition to having their own booth and more than one person told me that Control4 can use the Eaton devices.
The other company showing in the Control4 pavillion was Johnson Controls. They are using a repurposed (some software changes plus support for BACNet) controller from Control4 to go after the small scale commercial industrial/building control market.
Yes, we're still waiting for the ZigBee Alliance to get the Home Automation application profile "Just right" (Quote from CES 2006 BTW) In the mean time, the individual ZigBee Alliance members are doing something about what one person characterized as the ZigBee Alliance being the biggest inhibitor to ZigBee adoption.
George West
www.wtrs.net
