Wiring Glass Break in Vista 15P

[jtw]

I'm off to a really slow start on my diy Vista 15P upgrade project.  I can't find the answers to any of my questions on the net anywhere.  I hope someone here can help.
 
I bought an FG-730 wired glass break sensor to add to my existing Vista 15P.  The house is pre-wired for the sensor (4 wire).  When I go to configure the zone, I have the option of using EOL, NC, or NO.  As far as the hard wire, I have the option of wiring NC, NO, NC with EOL, or NO with EOL.  
 
How do you go about making the decision of which options to use?  Is the FG-730, itself, fail open or fail closed?
 
Thanks.  If I get to where I understand this completely, I think everything else will be a breeze.

 

[RAL]

The FG-730 has a form C contact, which gives you both NO and NC terminals.  So it's your choice which one you want to use.  If you add an EOL resistor it will allow the panel to monitor the circuit for shorts and open conditions.
 
My choice would be to set the zone for EOL, then connect an EOL resistor in series from the cable to the C terminal on the FG-730, and the other wire to the NC terminal.
 
If you don't want to use an EOL resistor, then set the zone for NC and connect the wires from the cable to the C and NC terminals on the FG-730.
 
[Edit]:
 
One question:  Are you connecting the FG-730 to one of the hardwired zones on the 15P (e.g. zones 1-6), or to a zone expander like the 4219?

 

[jtw]

Thanks, again, RAL.  I'm going to be connecting it to a 4219 expansion zone that I bought.  I have the different resistors.  (The builder gave me the option of adding additional prewires at a cost, but never mentioned that all 6 of the 15P zones were already used up as part of their standard package.)
 
OK, I see that your recommended set-up has an advantage if the sensor is 'fail open'.  Is that a good guess at the failure mode of that sensor?

 

[Del91574]

Wow, 730's still exist?
 
Normal burg would be wired NC with an EOLR installed at the device. Personally, I wire them as 3 wire devices to save a splice and supervise a couple of things, even though the relay will open and change state upon power loss.

 

[RAL]

Thanks, again, RAL.  I'm going to be connecting it to a 4219 expansion zone that I bought.  I have the different resistors.  (The builder gave me the option of adding additional prewires at a cost, but never mentioned that all 6 of the 15P zones were already used up as part of their standard package.)
 
OK, I see that your recommended set-up has an advantage if the sensor is 'fail open'.  Is that a good guess at the failure mode of that sensor?

 
 
If you are installing a 4219, I believe the newer version uses 2K EOLRs, while older ones used 1K.  Also, on the older version, EOLRs were required for all zones on the 4219. With the newer version, DIP switch 7 is used to select between NC and EOLR mode.  But this doesn't seem to be documented in the 4219 instructions I have seen.  I found that tidbit here.
 
I haven't used an FG-730, but the glassbreaks that I have used will go open if there is a loss of power.

 

[jtw]

 Personally, I wire them as 3 wire devices to save a splice and supervise a couple of things, even though the relay will open and change state upon power loss.

Could you explain this a little more?  (Novice here.)

 

[Del91574]

Wiring as 3 wire eliminates a splice, first and foremost.
 
The main item I'm looking at would be a ground fault.

 

[snesgenesis]

Just curious why didn't you get the Vista 20P? It comes with an additional 2 zones.

 

[jtw]

Just curious why didn't you get the Vista 20P? It comes with an additional 2 zones.

Now ya tell me.  It's a new house.  It came with a Vista 15P and 6 completed zones as a standard feature.  Soon after closing, you get a knock on the door from the security company chosen by the builder.  The representative from that company was the first to inform me that I would not be able to use the 2 extra prewires that I had paid for, until I 'upgraded' the brains of the system.  They didn't tell us when we made the selections.  You know what they say about assume.
 
Additional zones (including sensors) were all the same, high price.  So, adding a 7th zone was the same cost as adding the 8th or 9th zone.  If I knew what I was doing, I could have paid for the 7th zone, and hoped they added an expansion module instead of substituting a 20P.  But, knowing them, they would have put the glass break on the same loop as window closures.

 

[Del91574]

Typical tract house/builder spec panel.

Given the cost of the add-ons, I'd wager they'd be installing a 4219 no matter what vs. swapping the board for a 20P. Keep in mind, at trade cost, we're talking like a $20 difference for the panel, but when you factor in their additional items, they're not going to pull the panel and have a "useless" board sitting around (that wouldn't be able to be warrantied).

 

[jtw]

Nuts, again!  I just realized that the 4219 zone expander transmits alarm status signals to the 15P as data.  Correct?  So, when I add 4 wire devices to the 4219, do most people follow the 'standard' of using the black and red wires for alarm signals, and use the yellow and green for + and -  ?
 
So, in particular, for my glass break, land the black and red wires on terminals 5 and 6 (zone D) in the 4219, and use the yellow and green for power and ground, and land them on terminals 2 and 3 on TB2 in the 4219?
 
i'd like to follow a normal convention for whoever has to clean up my mess in the future.  (Which will hopefully be many, many years from now.)  Thanks.

 

[RAL]

I'm not sure there is any standard.  Different installers have their own preferences.  My preference is to wire them this way:
 
red:  +12V
black:  ground
green: zone common
yellow: zone input
 
If you have any 4-wire devices wired to the 15P, I'd follow the same convention that those used, just to be consistent.

 

[jtw]

Yes!  Thanks, AGAIN!  You're right.  Five of the zones on the main panel are 2 wire and use black and red for the zone common and input.  The 4 wire CO detector uses a green and yellow on those 2 terminals, and it's black and red for power and ground.