Wiring new construction for HA... time to ditch cable?

[CinciJeff]

I'm new to this forum but have been dabbling in HA for many years now. I'm in the process of building a new house and am taking the opportunity to start from scratch (almost) with HA. I'm getting the house pre-wired for about every conceivable device, so I've got Cat6, coax and low-voltage going everywhere. Based on my research (and recommendations from my installer), I've pretty much decided on an HAI OmniPro II as my "hardware backbone" and HomeSeer as my interface platform. The OmniPro will deal with the alarm system, audio distribution, lighting, etc. while HomeSeer will display status, control lighting and AV and provide the remote (internet) interface.
 
One area I'm currently exploring is how to maximize the video content available via the internet, and how to minimize my cable bill. There are a lot of solutions out there, but not all seem to interface easily with HA. In particular I'm looking at MythTV and/or XBMC. Our family doesn't watch much TV, but when we do it usually cable series shows, Disney channel shows for the kids, or movies. I've got a pretty old TiVo that we use almost exclusively for Phineas and Ferb but I'd like to integrate that PVR functionality into the HAI or HomeSeer system.
 
I'm looking for help or advice from anyone out there who has a similar situation and has had success with integrating a PVR (MythTV for example) or XBMC-type system into their HA system. I'm not finding a lot of specifics on the other forums, but I figure this would be the place to find the experts.
 
Thanks!

 

[sic0048]

I use SageTV with my CQC setup.  It is entirely controllable from the automation software, but generally I don't use more than the normal playback and interface normally.  Unfortunately, Google bought SageTV (and started putting the technology into their Fiber TV service) and therefore SageTV as we know it is dead.  There won't be any more updates, or software licenses/hardware devices sold by Sage anymore.
 
That being said, it is still the best DVR solution out there.  The flexibility of SageTV allows you to use it with any service provider (ie cable, satellite, OTA) simply by using the correct tuner (which Sage never sold anyway and so they are still available).  You can buy licenses and extender hardware (that allows you to view content on a local TV via a local network device) in the SageTV forums and ebay.
 
I realize that many people don't want to buy into a dead product line - with good reason.  But SageTV is so far head of what else is available today, that it still makes for a compelling option IMHO.
 
I don't know how the control is between SageTV and Homeseer, but clearly the ability to control the system is there if someone just wants to write a plugin for it (if there isn't one already). 

 

[pete_c]

Welcome to the forum Jeff!
 
Here I went from satellite, cable, OTA, Tivo DVRs to cable/satellite propietary (WAF) DVRs (really they just copied the Tivo stuff from years ago anyways) and going slow (again its the WAF stuff) to ....
 
...a MythTV box with multiple tuners and XBMC to manage the MythTV boxes.   Other folks on the forum are using the Sage products to do similiar.
 
I am not saying that the MythTV DVR stuff is the best here.  Its not really plug n play per say.  Once though you start using it you will get familiar with it.  Really though unless I am totally familiar with it; really don't want to push it to the wife as she is now just getting used to the whole propietary satellite / cable DVR stuff.
 
Thing is both the MythTV software and the XBMC software which plays on any OS are free and you have to purchase the hardware.  My little footprint MythTV 64 bit Ubuntu box has connectivity to:
 
1 - satellite with a satellite tuner card in it
2 - HDHomerun OTA tuner (2) and HDHomerun Cable tuner (3).
 
I did have another combo tuner inside and may add it; but I don't watch TV anyways.
 
There is though remaining the yearly cost of the schedules you utilize for recording and such.  You can download providers schedules but they are only good for the provider and some days.  I personally here pay a yearly fee to Schedules direct.  Its very reasonably priced.
 
The issues that I ran into (wife watches TV here and I do not reguarly watch TV; just movies) is that the wife was used to the Tivo GUI's for over 10 years and the change to the satellite/cable gui DVRs was different and it is just as different to migrate over to the MythTV scheduling stuff via the XBMC boxes.  Its really all the same though; just a bit different methodologies.
 
The above noted I am not distributing video content via HDMI; but rather just the network and lately its mostly Gb to the XBMC boxes; as I have none wirelessly connected.  That and its easier for me to remote an XBMC box on the network anyways.  They are so small these days you can just put one behind the LCD tv and never look at it.  If you go to a central DB for your content then all of the XBMC boxes can be in sync.   Yup and Homeseer does have a working XBMC control plugin and it also has pieces in it such that you can control your automation pieces on Homeseer from you XBMC boxes.  IE: like using your remote control for the XBMC box and turning off or dimming your lights or checking on automation status while in XBMC (this would also tie into the HAI OPII panel).
 
Many folks also on the forum are looking to distribute / or distributing their HDMI content via HDMI switchers and running HDMI on the wire. 
 
I still kind of do this as a retro thing with inhome separate video channels and old analog video to these SD only channels backfeeding these channels to the OTA stuff which really is a hodgepodge mix of HD and SD stuff back fed in to the OTA stuff.
 
BTW - all of the Tivo boxes are off these days.  It was a nice ride.  I could remote manage the boxes and stream live TV and recorded content.  But the ones I have are all older than 10 years. 
 
I am still amazed with what they were able to do with little CPUs and small memory footprints and OS.
 
They were the first and the name "TIVO" became synonymous to a DVR; like the QTip name and it being a cotton swab.

 

[CinciJeff]

Wow, great info guys. I will look into SageTV, but you're right that it's a bit of a gamble buying into a dead product. Not that it hasn't stopped me before
 
Pete, it sounds like you have a similar setup, and I'm glad to hear that XBMC has a working HomeSeer plugin.
 
I'm not too concerned about distributed video, though the way I'm pre-wiring it will be possible if I want to go that route. I'd really like to minimize how much hardware I have to deal with, since all those "tolerances" add up and create hassles and downtime. As with many here, the WAF is of prime concern, so that fact that she's comfortable with the Tivo interface means I need to find something as intuitive to use as that. I'm hoping the customization options that HomeSeer provides will allow me to do this.
 
I will check into HDHomeRun as a tuner solution. Like I said before, our TV watching is minimal, but I'd like to have access to OTA and basic cable channels in order to record TV series and my kids' shows. I don't have enough information to make a decision yet, but apparently the phone co.'s (Cincinnati Bell) fiber system is on my street so I'll need to choose between that and Time Warner's Roadrunner for an internet connection. I think either way I'll have to buy basic cable so a tuner will be required.
 
I have a lot more to figure out, but I'm sure I'll be back with more questions. Thanks again for your insight!

 

[pete_c]

I will check into HDHomeRun as a tuner solution.

 
Its much easier to run the cable / OTA connections to an HDHomeRun box than directly to the DVR. 
 
I learned this after putting multiple tuner cards inside of the MythTV box which is then a bigger footprint with more wires going to it. 
 
What a great idea and invention.  Like the Tivo; said methodologies have already been copied by most of the broadband providers making it theirs such that the whole HDHomeRun thing might fade into oblivion sometime in the future...
 
We did just recently get a letter from Comcast stating in some round about way that the use of cable cards has been an option for them and they will slowly be phasing them out.  Maybe though I didn't read it right as its mostly written in legalize terms.
 
Some few months ago Verizon slammed my FIOS services telling me that I ordered an upgrade to what I had; when in fact I did not.  Over the last 5 years the Verizon FIOS monthly service has "crept" up to about 50% more than when initiated and slowly the service has been subdivided into little options so far still included but probably a per monthly service and a per use bucket charge is around the corner.
 
Personally I see this as a contradiction to the whole migration to HD/digital TV put forth originally pushed by the FCC to the broadcasing industry. 
 
Orginally the broadcast industry didn't want to upgrade because they would have to spend monies on hardware doing so; instead though cable, satellite and fiber "offered" it as an optional thing making the consumer pay for the privilege of watching their HD content.  I mean the FCC didn't pay for their (broadcast industry) hardware upgrades to digital content.  They had to get the monies from somewhere. 
 
There is also that "trickle down effect" of the content providers and the channels they provide; IE: sports, movies etc that want their piece of the pie too.  IE: all those times you read about some new contract between say a satellite or cable channel and the cable channel just dropping the channel until both come to terms; I always do wonder who bends the most; the channel provider or the cable, satellite or fiber provider?
 
Typically the winner is who holds the "biggest stick"
 
It's all changing anyways to "a la carte" content from the providers in the next few years whatever that provider is: satellite, cable, fiber etc. 
 
Here in Chicago there are already many private OTA digital pay per view or subscription content providers. 
 
What I "heard" happened was that they agreed on moving to HD with the payback of allotment of digital subchannels which they could eventually charge for and get a return on "their investment". 
 
The utilities transport today is owned by your town / village or whatever.  In Florida in a tiny 50 home subdiviion we can choose between Comcast, Verizon FIOS and AT&T Uverse.  This is ideal for the consumer to be able to pick and choose methodology of transport.  This is though was updating older infrastructure; IE: old cable and telephone lines with a subdivision original built in the 1950's.
 
In the midwest while in another small subdivision (originally built in the 2000's) of just a hundred homes; the choices have been capped to one provider (Comcast) while other subdivisions in the area have Verizon FIOS and others AT&T Uverse.  Personally the implementation or choices of availability relate to who carries the bigger stick or whatever.
 
Apologies for being cynical on this post.