upstatemike
Senior Member
Anybody know if there is a difference between PLCBUS and X-10 version 2? Are they just two names for the same thing? (The specs look the same.)
PLCBUS vs. X-10 version 2
- Thread starter upstatemike
- Start date
briankelly63
Active Member
murphy
Member
Look at www.plcbus.com Both systems are not compatible but should peacefully coexist (AFAIK).
X10 version 2 is a good improvement of the old fashined X10 and fully compatible with the usual X10.
You can adress 256 different devices via a 120 kHz carrier. Switching with a second delay. And in most cases ok.
The PLCBUS-System can adress 64000 devices, is operating with another carrier, another modulation, is faster, more resistant to line-noise and some options more. All together much better, - and more expensive.
For me, there is the question if the PLCBus is the same or compatible with UPB ? I beleave yes, is it ?
upstatemike
Senior Member
Thanks for the input. I want to add these to the HA System Comarison Spreadsheet but I wasn't sure if they should be two separate entries or just one.
I have X10-2 and PLCBUS home, and I think I can answer your questions.
1) X10-2 is just X10 with an other marketing name, and modules have features not commonly available on standard X10 modules. Modules support Scenes (they can react to up to 16 addresses), they have a good sensitivity, and some modules have an included X10 filter. Nothing more than X10.
2) PLCBUS is not based on X10. This is a completely new technology, however PLCBUS commands and PLCBUS addresses are very similar to X10.
PlcBus is not compatible with UPB (as it's 220V 50Hz).
PlcBus peacefully coexist with X10.
Pros:
- not sensitive to line noise (never had any problem here).
- faster than X10.
- Plcbus fast polling can report the status of 16 modules in less than one second.
- All modules support up to 16 PlcBus scenes with individual dim level and ramp rate.
- All modules support status requests
- All modules support command acknowledgment.
- DIM is better done than X10. There is a DIM-START or BRIGHT-START command, then a FADE-STOP command is sent when the button is released. This does not use all the bandwidth as long as the DIM button is pressed like X10.
Cons:
- modules do not report when operated locally (must use fast-polling). It's a shame ! PLCBUS with local operation report would be the perfect HA protocol for me !!!
- Shade/blind module only supports 45W (must use additional relays for most applications)
I'm going to try to fill the holes in your comparison charts. If a question is not answered, this is because I don't know.
Dimmer switches: YES
Can set default level for local operation of dimmer: YES
Can set default ramp rate for local operation of dimmer: YES (via software)
True relay on/off switches: YES
Any switch can link to any other switch: NO
Switches report status when operated locally: NO
Keypad with status led for each button: NO
Devices are immune to false activation from noise : don't know
Devices are immune to failed activation from noise : don't know
Switch and keypad firmware is field upgradable: NO
Retrofit "no neutral" devices: YES (some modules)
Shallow form factor: YES
Dual load switches: YES
RF "stick a switch": YES (same as X10)
Screw in relay module: NO
2-pin lamp module with local-control: NO
3-pin lamp module with local-control: YES
Appliance modules with local control: YES
True rocker or toggle: YES
Rocker/toggle color change kit: YES (for crystal switches)
Dimmers have led level bar: YES (for crystal switches)
Double-tap for fast on: NO
Wired tabletop controllers: YES
RF remotes: YES (same as X10+encrypted)
RF Keyfobs: YES (same as X10+encrypted)
RF motion sensors: YES
Wired motion sensor: NO
Companion switch available: NO
Any switch can trigger a scene: NO (need special switch)
Solid state ON/OFF switches: YES
IR Bridge: YES
Permanent device addressing: NO
Assignable device addressing: YES
Reports load changes: NO
Continuous status polling: Possible (PlcBus fast-polling)
Remote Link/Scene programming: YES
Remote device enrollment: NO
Remote programming of local settings: YES
Remote factory reset: NO
Remote device diagnostic: YES
Shade/blind control: YES
Conditional programming: YES (using software)
Sequence programming: ?
1) X10-2 is just X10 with an other marketing name, and modules have features not commonly available on standard X10 modules. Modules support Scenes (they can react to up to 16 addresses), they have a good sensitivity, and some modules have an included X10 filter. Nothing more than X10.
2) PLCBUS is not based on X10. This is a completely new technology, however PLCBUS commands and PLCBUS addresses are very similar to X10.
PlcBus is not compatible with UPB (as it's 220V 50Hz).
PlcBus peacefully coexist with X10.
Pros:
- not sensitive to line noise (never had any problem here).
- faster than X10.
- Plcbus fast polling can report the status of 16 modules in less than one second.
- All modules support up to 16 PlcBus scenes with individual dim level and ramp rate.
- All modules support status requests
- All modules support command acknowledgment.
- DIM is better done than X10. There is a DIM-START or BRIGHT-START command, then a FADE-STOP command is sent when the button is released. This does not use all the bandwidth as long as the DIM button is pressed like X10.
Cons:
- modules do not report when operated locally (must use fast-polling). It's a shame ! PLCBUS with local operation report would be the perfect HA protocol for me !!!
- Shade/blind module only supports 45W (must use additional relays for most applications)
I'm going to try to fill the holes in your comparison charts. If a question is not answered, this is because I don't know.
Dimmer switches: YES
Can set default level for local operation of dimmer: YES
Can set default ramp rate for local operation of dimmer: YES (via software)
True relay on/off switches: YES
Any switch can link to any other switch: NO
Switches report status when operated locally: NO
Keypad with status led for each button: NO
Devices are immune to false activation from noise : don't know
Devices are immune to failed activation from noise : don't know
Switch and keypad firmware is field upgradable: NO
Retrofit "no neutral" devices: YES (some modules)
Shallow form factor: YES
Dual load switches: YES
RF "stick a switch": YES (same as X10)
Screw in relay module: NO
2-pin lamp module with local-control: NO
3-pin lamp module with local-control: YES
Appliance modules with local control: YES
True rocker or toggle: YES
Rocker/toggle color change kit: YES (for crystal switches)
Dimmers have led level bar: YES (for crystal switches)
Double-tap for fast on: NO
Wired tabletop controllers: YES
RF remotes: YES (same as X10+encrypted)
RF Keyfobs: YES (same as X10+encrypted)
RF motion sensors: YES
Wired motion sensor: NO
Companion switch available: NO
Any switch can trigger a scene: NO (need special switch)
Solid state ON/OFF switches: YES
IR Bridge: YES
Permanent device addressing: NO
Assignable device addressing: YES
Reports load changes: NO
Continuous status polling: Possible (PlcBus fast-polling)
Remote Link/Scene programming: YES
Remote device enrollment: NO
Remote programming of local settings: YES
Remote factory reset: NO
Remote device diagnostic: YES
Shade/blind control: YES
Conditional programming: YES (using software)
Sequence programming: ?
upstatemike
Senior Member
Thanks Stipus! Very clear explanation!
I really like the crystal switches with the dancing LEDs. I almost think that if it weren’t for the issue of not reporting local operation that I would seriously consider rewiring my house to run on a full-time 220V 50HZ inverter just so I could use this technology.
I need to find time to update the spreadsheet this week and I’ll use your info to get the PLCBUS data filled in.
bucko
Active Member
[/quote]
Cons:
- modules do not report when operated locally (must use fast-polling). It's a shame ! PLCBUS with local operation report would be the perfect HA protocol for me !!!
- Shade/blind module only supports 45W (must use additional relays for most applications)
[/quote]
I have to ask a stupid question. What is the result to my HA system if PLCBUS will not report in operated locally? If I turn on a light via the switch plate my HA network will not know it's state? So then my LCD control screen cannot tell if it is on or off? Or for that matter, my iPhone? Please clarify as I am about to build and want to use these devices since I live in China.
Thanks
Cons:
- modules do not report when operated locally (must use fast-polling). It's a shame ! PLCBUS with local operation report would be the perfect HA protocol for me !!!
- Shade/blind module only supports 45W (must use additional relays for most applications)
[/quote]
I have to ask a stupid question. What is the result to my HA system if PLCBUS will not report in operated locally? If I turn on a light via the switch plate my HA network will not know it's state? So then my LCD control screen cannot tell if it is on or off? Or for that matter, my iPhone? Please clarify as I am about to build and want to use these devices since I live in China.
Thanks
upstatemike
Senior Member
Yes that is what it means. It sounds like there is an option to do fast polling from your controller which would mitigate the issue of updating your LCD screen and iPhone but using local control to trigger anything in real time would not be possible.
Hi, we are starting to use PLCBUS.
Today we did an installation and we had a problem. The line had noise level from 003 to 007 in PLCBUS signal test programmer (4830), but anyway I sent instructions from this same equipment (4830) and the micromodules responded correctly. Until this, all ok.
“Unfortunatelyâ€, the user wants telephone control; and when we unplug the signal test programmer and plug in the telephone controller (5010 or 5012) the signal inyected from this controller seems to be weakest than the signal test programmer; and the micromodules only respond 1/10 times.
I think that PLCBUS works with this noise level… but it seems like the telephone controller PLC signal is weak.
Anyone could help me?
Thanks in advance.
Today we did an installation and we had a problem. The line had noise level from 003 to 007 in PLCBUS signal test programmer (4830), but anyway I sent instructions from this same equipment (4830) and the micromodules responded correctly. Until this, all ok.
“Unfortunatelyâ€, the user wants telephone control; and when we unplug the signal test programmer and plug in the telephone controller (5010 or 5012) the signal inyected from this controller seems to be weakest than the signal test programmer; and the micromodules only respond 1/10 times.
I think that PLCBUS works with this noise level… but it seems like the telephone controller PLC signal is weak.
Anyone could help me?
Thanks in advance.
