UPB restart?

Way back in 2007/2008 I did a HA system that integrated UPB, CADDX, Temperature Measurement, Sensors on every door and every window, power monitoring all with a hacked  interface to  my blackberry.  Cocoontech saved me many times! I have a new house and would like to restart using current technology.
 
I really liked the UPB switches and how configurable they were and how easy the integrated into my controller (I used HomeVision at the time...it was bullet proof and worked great).  My only complaint was the switch delay...I got used to it but I watched countless friends use them with frustration.
 
I read about newer switches being faster.   A friend gave me a bunch of switches he wasn't using from PCS and I installed them to test and sure enough they have the delay (Firmware 4.15 if that matters).   I don't see a way to change the delay.  So before I take the plunge on a new protocol I'd like to know if UPB's mfg's have a solution to this issue, or if perhaps I am mis configuring them (I tried making double tap the same as single tap but I still get a delay...).  Any direction on this would be appreciated!
 
Thanks!
 
Chuck
 
 

I do remember that there was an announcement some time ago about being able to change the time the dimmer waited to see if there was a double click, or double click and hold kind of thing.  I forget who made them.  I went poking around inside UPstart and couldn't find any devices that had that kind of setting.
 
I too love UPB, but this was a huge problem for visitors, they were easily confused by the switches.  So for my new remodel I am going to RadioRA, with all of its wallet draining glory.

I've never really noticed a delay here.  I'm running Simply Automated and Leviton UPB switches though.  I just tried a couple, and from click to light starting to ramp is pretty fast, certainly not a second long, more like a half second or less here.  The only thing that sometimes bothers me is that mine are mostly still programmed with the default ramp rates, which means full brightness takes 2-4 seconds.

What I've found is that if you have ramp-on times enabled, it makes the time to see any visible light longer and thus guests get confused.  I've changed lights in guest baths and a few other places where guests may interact with them to snap-on and it seemed to fix the issue of their confusion.

If you ramp up the dimmer, especially with LED lights, there will be a delay before you see light. Snap on the light, or at lest use a very fast rise, and lights go right on. We use HLC, where you set scenes, and that turns on the lights, and there as well, very little delay.

It may help to put your CIM on the same phase as the most commonly used lights if possible.
 
Mike.

EDIT - Others can maybe back me up here but I think that a phase coupler installed at the main breaker box may speed the system response up a little if you don't already have one.

I utilize a serial UPB pim floater which I utilize with my laptop.
 
(have phase couplers and one phase repeater here all on autonomous breakers).

mikefamig said:

It may help to put your CIM on the same phase as the most commonly used lights if possible.
 
Mike.

EDIT - Others can maybe back me up here but I think that a phase coupler installed at the main breaker box may speed the system response up a little if you don't already have one.

Click to expand...

Yes you want the signal strong. If the first signal doesn't go through there is a second, but that takes longer.
 
If you have Leviton and/or PCS switches, a Leviton or PCS repeater is the way to go. If you have Simply Automated switches get their non-inverting phase coupler (or several).  If you have SA AND (Leviton and/or PCS) you can use a repeater and coupler, like Pete and I do.

The exception is if you have HAI or PCS really old Gen 1 switches. If so treat them like SA switches.

Guys, I have one switch configured to switch the local load (presumably there are no links being sent). 
 
Both single and double tap are configured to snap (e.g. no ramp) the local load on and off.
 
This should be the fastest way to switch the load (by my recollection).   I estimate the delay to be 0.75second...a very long time, long enough to think what the heck is going on before the light comes on.  I am not sure how old these switches are beyond them reporting rev 4.15 on the properties page.

Yeah no one knows how to use the switches in my house.  Also I have a switch that I'm not sure why but I disabled the ramp up and ramp down all together - and now it just reacts SUPER slow - so slow that I even look back to make sure it turns off.  Kinda stinks.

hucker said:

Guys, I have one switch configured to switch the local load (presumably there are no links being sent). 
 
Both single and double tap are configured to snap (e.g. no ramp) the local load on and off.
 
This should be the fastest way to switch the load (by my recollection).   I estimate the delay to be 0.75second...a very long time, long enough to think what the heck is going on before the light comes on.  I am not sure how old these switches are beyond them reporting rev 4.15 on the properties page.

Click to expand...

What brand and load are you switching? Incandescent bulb or LED?

I have various LED and incandescent lamps.  All of them when connected to a normal light switch feel instant and on UPB have a noticeable delay that people react to.  I have them configured to snap in UPB start.  I have single and double tap set to the same thing (snap 100%), I have tested many other options.  I am only switching the local load.  I have measured with my cell phone  video and estimate delay to be about 700ms (0.7sec).      I now have 3 different switches that I have tested.  WSD1-10 firmware version 4.15, RS101 firmware 2.11, SAI US1/US2 Retail Dimming Switch firmware 02.10. (those are the strings UPStart displays when it shows properties for the switch. When I do the noise test in UPStart I get 84/85 (excellent) and noise = 0.  The results are similar on all 3 switches.
 
These switches may be old (they act similar to how they did when I installed UPB on a house about 10 years ago) but I'm not sure as they were given to me by a guy who pulled them out of an install in a church.
 
I am guessing that these are old vintage and have the delay.  I suppose my question now is...is there a UPB switch that feels "normal" when  turning lights on and off with no delay or short delay?  

Do you see the same delay with incandescent that you do with the LED lamps?  I have all LED and for some the initial power on of the lamp is a bit delayed but if turned off and then back on again it comes on instantly.  This is not real world but simply a test of whether the LED is introducing some delay in the process.  Not all LEDs do this.  I have a breakfast bar with a switch in a hard to reach place so I have 2 additional switches in easy to reach areas of the kitchen that turn the "breakfast bar" scene on.  The delay is no more than me saying one-mississippi.  Almost all of our switches are Simply Automated's SA US1-40 universal base model which affords the most flexibility and can be used for either light or load switching.  I stuck with SA for all UPB because of the flexibility of their lighting solution.
 
Some switch models also include an adjustable response time between when switch is pressed and when the load is engaged or disengaged, perhaps that is a setting to review...? It's been a while since I've been in the config software so cannot remember what tab it's buried in.
 
-Ben

Simply Automated switches let you configure the delay down to something like 350ms - maybe lower (don't have upstart handy)... if you add a switch offline though you'll be able to see the options.  The whole point of the delay is to see if there'll be a second press - and I know I tested some with too low of a setting - I couldn't double-tap fast enough.  350ms sticks in my head as what I think I used.  The higher 750 is downright annoying.
 
My immediate family noticed a little when I first did my last house 7 years ago - but nobody ever complained.  I did have a motion sensor in the guest bathroom that helped too - before people knew what they pressed, all the lights came on anyway.

These must be the older switches as they are definitely the  downright annoying 750ms and they are not adjustable from UPStart (even the one SA one) I fully understand the purpose of the delay (though I do notice that nobody seems to complain about "delay" on their mouse when they single and double click just fine).  In my view double tapping a light switch should be the special case that requires configuration while the single tap should work as close to a "real" switch as possible.