123
Senior Member
Any insights into getting Internet Radio working in Premise? That could be a real showstopper for me.
I checked the old forum, but came up with little usable info. I did see where there was an import to add streams, but the link is dead.
I tried to get an ASX stream going but it wouldn't do anything.
======================
Can you tell us a bit about your configuration? Are you trying to use Shoutcast? What kind of hardware are you using for audio rendering (i.e. sound card, extreamer, etc.)?
======================
…
In the last go around, I was trying to get an ASX stream to play.
I am using an M-Audio Delta 1010LT for 3 zones. 4th is currently unused. Those feed into a Xantech ZPR68-10 with EXP Expander for a total of 10 zones.
So I was trying to get the stream to play from mSense into one of the sound card outputs and then one zone. MP3 playback works flawlessly
BTW
I have also tried other types of streams, like Shoutcast with no
success. I get: Nothing Playing Current Media: Internet Radio
======================
I am back on the trail of this again and am spinning my wheels. Seems to happen a lot these days. The problem seems to be exactly the one in this thread http://www.premisesystems.info/forums/3376/ShowPost.aspx
I did add the modEasyInternetStream.xdo to the system, and it extracts the mms://xxxx stream just as it should. But Premise still immediately stops and mutes the stream. If anyone has any insight, it would be appreciated.
======================
Yeah, my advice is to give up, or use a Barix or Squeezebox to do the stream. The Barix can play most streams, but the Squeezebox would be best (software codecs and updates vs the chip-based decoding in the Barix). With minor monetary contributions, we could be persuaded to write a driver for it...
The reason i say to give up on Premise playing it natively through sound cards, is because it has to do the decoding - and it's too much effort (initially and ongoing) to enable Premise to keep up with all the different ways that internet radio work these days... Better for somebody else to own that (Squeezebox or even WMP) and just keep a driver available (which won't need to change when codecs or stream variables do).
======================
Well, that's not what I wanted to hear
Can an external player be called? Of course, mSense would have to understand that so it doesn't step on that soundcard output. Hmmm. An external player plugged into the Xantech may be the best answer.
And how "minor" a monetary contribution would it take to get you to write a HAL UPB driver That's and a USB-UIRT are the only things hanging me up. I will probably buy a Global Cache if I decide to stay on this course.
I just don't want to give because I really like the logic of mSense. Everything else out there seems to require that you pick a "stream" first, then decide where it gets sent.
Time to check ebay.
======================
Sam
UPnP may be your answer. TVersity media server supports internet streams. Add something like a Linksys dsm120 (audio only media renderer), install my UPnP control point and you can get what you need. I need to check if my control point recognizes internet radio streams. If it doesn't, I can add support pretty quickly.
TVersity is free and you can prove the concept by using the media renderer downloadable from the Intel site.
john
======================
Thanks John.
It seems that the only way to keep Premise going is to start to wedge all of these little kludgy bits and pieces in. I think it may be time to consider other options.
I can see that the next new piece I add is likely to cause the same kinds of issues. Without support to the core, I don't think this can last.
Thanks,
Sam
======================
Sam,
Good points. It would be nice if all of this stuff just came "out of the box". However, even if the platform was fully supported, I doubt you would see every device and protocol in the industry implemented by the vendor. It's pretty clear to me that one of the design goals behind Premise was the ability for 3d party software vendors, integrators, and hobbyists to build add-ons to enhance the product and support new devices.
Personally, I'd like to see Moto release the source code so we can make this a true open-source project. I've scanned Source Forge looking for similar platforms and nothing really compares to Premise.
-John
======================
I agree on the goals and that Moto should release the code. The problems I see currently, are the community is so small and it has been stagnant for so long that there is no momentum. I hung around hoping that it would be resurrected in some form.
Now I find myself needing to get my control system put to bed, so to speak, and I don't write code
I have been looking at MainLobby and CQC. They both have their issues, but they are both very active.
I will continue to watch this though, since I really want to see this to work because I think that conceptually, this was a brilliant idea.
======================
John,
Will your Upnp plugin work with a software player? I have added the On2Share plugin to WMP10 and it talks to the TVersity server.
Can I get Premise to control this setup, strictly software? If so, I can use an extra set of ouputs from my soundcard and be done with it.
Premise did see the server immediately, but all I get in the browser is an icon labeled "Internet Stream." I have to go to the TVersity software to select streams.
======================
Sam,
Software should work although I've noticed the On2Share plugin is a bit flakey. The Intel player works beautifully. As I said in a previous post, I don't believe my driver recognizes Internet streams yet. I'll be happy to add that this weekend. Adding a new media type is pretty straightforward.
I'm not quite clear on your last paragraph. Have you installed my driver? If so, it should see (and register with Premise) all the UPnP AV Media Servers and Renderers on your network. I don't use the native Premise UPnP driver at all, so if you have it configured, remove it.
Thanks,
-John
======================
I have now removed the Premise UPnP driver.
My question was one of usage I guess. And now that I have restarted the services, Premise sees TVersity and its entries. It does not see any internet streams as you mentioned.
So am I right in expecting that if it did see the streams, I would select something from any Premise browser, as I would MP3s, etc., Premise would then call the renderer (WMP/On2Share for now) and play it? Or am I missing something?
======================
It should work as you describe. My design goal was to use mSense. So you should be able to pick a piece of media (like an MP3) and play it in a zone. The zone should have a Media Renderer connected to it. So I assume that you didn't have any issues installing my driver and starting the service, right?
======================
No issues at all installing. Look forward to the update for internet streams
If this solves that problem (internet radio) then all that's left for me is UPB support for the newer UPB pieces. There are a couple of devices out there that translate X10 commands to UPB and back. That may be my answer.
And of course, then there's the interface. But one a step at a time.
Thanks John
======================
Sam,
I started digging into this a bit last night. I've been able to successfully make my DSM-520 play a stream using the Intel tool kit (outside of Premise). That's usually a good sign. Unfortunately, the out-of-the-box streams in TVersity can't be played on any of my hardware. They use the MMS transport and not http. I'm only going to be able to test the http portion. We may need a little back-and-forth debugging on the mms streams.
What you might want to do to confirm that we won't have a basic configuration issue is to download the Intel UPnP Tool kit and fire up the Media Controller while On2Share and TVersity are running. You'll see your TVsersity server content displayed. Pick a stream (actually try several because I don't think they all work) and right click to "send" them to your On2Share client. If you hear the stream we're in good shape.
Making progress!!!
-John
======================
Well, the Intel Media Controller doesn't see the On2Share client at all. It does however see the Intel renderer. So it does work.
I am going to keep looking for software clients to see. If there is something that offers a little more control. But it's a step forward.
======================
In addition to the update to my UPnP Control Point to better support Internet Radio, check this out: http://www.cidero.com/radioServer.html
I haven't tested it, but it should work with my Control Point.
-John
======================
John - I have now tried both TVersity and Cidero and they both work very well with your Control Point. Seamlessly, in fact. I have run both simultaneously as well. They integrate with mSense quite well.
Too bad neither is very friendly as far as organizing links. Strange folder structures. But mSense makes it tolerable.
Thanks John.
======================
That's great! Let me know if it does anything wacky.
I checked the old forum, but came up with little usable info. I did see where there was an import to add streams, but the link is dead.
I tried to get an ASX stream going but it wouldn't do anything.
======================
Can you tell us a bit about your configuration? Are you trying to use Shoutcast? What kind of hardware are you using for audio rendering (i.e. sound card, extreamer, etc.)?
======================
…
In the last go around, I was trying to get an ASX stream to play.
I am using an M-Audio Delta 1010LT for 3 zones. 4th is currently unused. Those feed into a Xantech ZPR68-10 with EXP Expander for a total of 10 zones.
So I was trying to get the stream to play from mSense into one of the sound card outputs and then one zone. MP3 playback works flawlessly
BTW
I have also tried other types of streams, like Shoutcast with no
success. I get: Nothing Playing Current Media: Internet Radio
======================
I am back on the trail of this again and am spinning my wheels. Seems to happen a lot these days. The problem seems to be exactly the one in this thread http://www.premisesystems.info/forums/3376/ShowPost.aspx
I did add the modEasyInternetStream.xdo to the system, and it extracts the mms://xxxx stream just as it should. But Premise still immediately stops and mutes the stream. If anyone has any insight, it would be appreciated.
======================
Yeah, my advice is to give up, or use a Barix or Squeezebox to do the stream. The Barix can play most streams, but the Squeezebox would be best (software codecs and updates vs the chip-based decoding in the Barix). With minor monetary contributions, we could be persuaded to write a driver for it...
The reason i say to give up on Premise playing it natively through sound cards, is because it has to do the decoding - and it's too much effort (initially and ongoing) to enable Premise to keep up with all the different ways that internet radio work these days... Better for somebody else to own that (Squeezebox or even WMP) and just keep a driver available (which won't need to change when codecs or stream variables do).
======================
Well, that's not what I wanted to hear
Can an external player be called? Of course, mSense would have to understand that so it doesn't step on that soundcard output. Hmmm. An external player plugged into the Xantech may be the best answer.
And how "minor" a monetary contribution would it take to get you to write a HAL UPB driver
That's and a USB-UIRT are the only things hanging me up. I will probably buy a Global Cache if I decide to stay on this course.I just don't want to give because I really like the logic of mSense. Everything else out there seems to require that you pick a "stream" first, then decide where it gets sent.
Time to check ebay.
======================
Sam
UPnP may be your answer. TVersity media server supports internet streams. Add something like a Linksys dsm120 (audio only media renderer), install my UPnP control point and you can get what you need. I need to check if my control point recognizes internet radio streams. If it doesn't, I can add support pretty quickly.
TVersity is free and you can prove the concept by using the media renderer downloadable from the Intel site.
john
======================
Thanks John.
It seems that the only way to keep Premise going is to start to wedge all of these little kludgy bits and pieces in. I think it may be time to consider other options.
I can see that the next new piece I add is likely to cause the same kinds of issues. Without support to the core, I don't think this can last.
Thanks,
Sam
======================
Sam,
Good points. It would be nice if all of this stuff just came "out of the box". However, even if the platform was fully supported, I doubt you would see every device and protocol in the industry implemented by the vendor. It's pretty clear to me that one of the design goals behind Premise was the ability for 3d party software vendors, integrators, and hobbyists to build add-ons to enhance the product and support new devices.
Personally, I'd like to see Moto release the source code so we can make this a true open-source project. I've scanned Source Forge looking for similar platforms and nothing really compares to Premise.
-John
======================
I agree on the goals and that Moto should release the code. The problems I see currently, are the community is so small and it has been stagnant for so long that there is no momentum. I hung around hoping that it would be resurrected in some form.
Now I find myself needing to get my control system put to bed, so to speak, and I don't write code
I have been looking at MainLobby and CQC. They both have their issues, but they are both very active.
I will continue to watch this though, since I really want to see this to work because I think that conceptually, this was a brilliant idea.
======================
John,
Will your Upnp plugin work with a software player? I have added the On2Share plugin to WMP10 and it talks to the TVersity server.
Can I get Premise to control this setup, strictly software? If so, I can use an extra set of ouputs from my soundcard and be done with it.
Premise did see the server immediately, but all I get in the browser is an icon labeled "Internet Stream." I have to go to the TVersity software to select streams.
======================
Sam,
Software should work although I've noticed the On2Share plugin is a bit flakey. The Intel player works beautifully. As I said in a previous post, I don't believe my driver recognizes Internet streams yet. I'll be happy to add that this weekend. Adding a new media type is pretty straightforward.
I'm not quite clear on your last paragraph. Have you installed my driver? If so, it should see (and register with Premise) all the UPnP AV Media Servers and Renderers on your network. I don't use the native Premise UPnP driver at all, so if you have it configured, remove it.
Thanks,
-John
======================
I have now removed the Premise UPnP driver.
My question was one of usage I guess. And now that I have restarted the services, Premise sees TVersity and its entries. It does not see any internet streams as you mentioned.
So am I right in expecting that if it did see the streams, I would select something from any Premise browser, as I would MP3s, etc., Premise would then call the renderer (WMP/On2Share for now) and play it? Or am I missing something?
======================
It should work as you describe. My design goal was to use mSense. So you should be able to pick a piece of media (like an MP3) and play it in a zone. The zone should have a Media Renderer connected to it. So I assume that you didn't have any issues installing my driver and starting the service, right?
======================
No issues at all installing. Look forward to the update for internet streams
If this solves that problem (internet radio) then all that's left for me is UPB support for the newer UPB pieces. There are a couple of devices out there that translate X10 commands to UPB and back. That may be my answer.
And of course, then there's the interface. But one a step at a time.
Thanks John
======================
Sam,
I started digging into this a bit last night. I've been able to successfully make my DSM-520 play a stream using the Intel tool kit (outside of Premise). That's usually a good sign. Unfortunately, the out-of-the-box streams in TVersity can't be played on any of my hardware. They use the MMS transport and not http. I'm only going to be able to test the http portion. We may need a little back-and-forth debugging on the mms streams.
What you might want to do to confirm that we won't have a basic configuration issue is to download the Intel UPnP Tool kit and fire up the Media Controller while On2Share and TVersity are running. You'll see your TVsersity server content displayed. Pick a stream (actually try several because I don't think they all work) and right click to "send" them to your On2Share client. If you hear the stream we're in good shape.
Making progress!!!
-John
======================
Well, the Intel Media Controller doesn't see the On2Share client at all. It does however see the Intel renderer. So it does work.
I am going to keep looking for software clients to see. If there is something that offers a little more control. But it's a step forward.
======================
In addition to the update to my UPnP Control Point to better support Internet Radio, check this out: http://www.cidero.com/radioServer.html
I haven't tested it, but it should work with my Control Point.
-John
======================
John - I have now tried both TVersity and Cidero and they both work very well with your Control Point. Seamlessly, in fact. I have run both simultaneously as well. They integrate with mSense quite well.
Too bad neither is very friendly as far as organizing links. Strange folder structures. But mSense makes it tolerable.
Thanks John.
======================
That's great! Let me know if it does anything wacky.
