Dipping my toes into HA - Advice?

[beelzerob]

I would like multiple temperature sensors in different rooms throughout the house - are there any recommendations for sensors that can be flush to the wall and use CAT5?
Likewise, I would like humidity sensors in the bathroom to automatically turn on fans - any recommendations there?

Thought toymaster would jump on this....

check out the datanab sensors....essentially flush (or at most like a nickle's width sticking out), or just a regular wall plate. Lots of sensors, including humidity. I have temps in every room, all wired back to a Datanab AI32, and then processed via CQC. Check out that site for the various options, or just ask Kirk Kanak (toymaster). Oh, and cat5 works fine for those...I used 22/4 wire. They share a ground, so I have 3 sensors all working off 1 run of 22/4....with cat5, you could get 7 going off one run if you were ambitious.

I'll answer what I can for OnQ. I am going with onq, I have wired for it already, and I have a small setup, but it's not in the walls, it's on my workbench because I'm writing the CQC driver for it. Currently, it has simple 2-way on/off control, and that's all, but I'll implement the full spec as there is more demand for it.

There is a relay control and an dimmer control...that's about it. So, for a fan you'd use a relay. I plan to use one of the datanab humidity sensors and an onq relay to turn on the bathroom fan when it senses high humidity (the fan is just outside our steam shower).

No one likes the OnQ scene switches, so don't feel bad. For 3-way control, you would use one dimmer to control the actual load, and then all other switches that control that load are the dummy switches. In fact, for n-way control, it's the same thing...so, 3, 4, 5 way, doesn't matter, same scenario.

You can't get custom engraved switches, but someone in these forums not too long ago pointed to a custom engraver for switch plates. It looked pretty freakin' awesome, but so was the cost. Do a search for it, it should show up.

Last question for now - is there any reason to wire cat 5 to power outlets for future control purposes?

Easy answer...if you have the time and money...do it. Just run a cat5 to the top of the box and tape it there (far enough back so the drywallers don't rip it to shreds). If you're talking open walls and the sky's the limit, then whenever you ask "should I wire for X or for Y?", the answer is always "BOTH...and then more!".



Edit: Heh...answered most of those. By the way, forgot to say...with OnQ, if your controller goes absolutely kaput, the lights still work just fine. You obviously would lose external control of them, but the switches operate the loads just like before. My first test setup was wiring the dimmer and relays and testing those before I even wired in the controller...they work just fine.

 

[broconne]

Edit: Heh...answered most of those. By the way, forgot to say...with OnQ, if your controller goes absolutely kaput, the lights still work just fine. You obviously would lose external control of them, but the switches operate the loads just like before. My first test setup was wiring the dimmer and relays and testing those before I even wired in the controller...they work just fine.

Do you wire the relay as a home run back to main OnQ panel?

 

[beelzerob]

Do you wire the relay as a home run back to main OnQ panel?

Not sure what you mean, in the context of the quoted part of my post....

What I did was I just ran a cat5 wire past every gang box that would someday house a switch I desired to control....and all those cat5 homerun to my wiring room. So, a single cat5 wire might pass be 3 or 4 "banks" of switches. That's not a problem because each of the load-controlling switches use the same 3 wires, they just all have different addresses. I think you can put up to 32 on a single set of wires.

Here's where I may have screwed up, though...my plan was to use those same homerun wires for the aux switches...the 3-way dummy switches. You see, according to OnQ, what you do basically is wire the dummy switch to the powered switch directly...the dummy switch just trips the relay remotely. Now, in my plan, it will still work because ALL of the wires end up in the wiring room. The only part I didn't take into account is that each aux switch uses 3 wires also...+, -, and neutral. Now, the neutral is shared, I think...but that means that my cat5 wire can handle 32 addressed switches, but only 2 additional aux switches. I haven't laid out the switches yet to see if that's really an issue or not...but it might be. It would have been better to: 1) Run more cat5 to areas that I would probably populate with aux switches, or 2) run cat5 from the future aux switch location directly to the control switch.

Also, OnQ sells a 4-button aux switch plate..it looks like a scene switch, but each button is really an aux button. I think that one switch will take up a whole cat5 cable, because each switch uses 2 wires....so that's 8. I don't know how that works with the neutral.... Anyway, just be warned, either figure out where your load and dummy switches go now, or just run lots of extra cat5.

 

[mtwalsh367]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned or not but one thing I have learned in automating my lighting and security via Insteon, Elk, and Homeseer is that the options for what you can do are only limited by your imagination but the good old rule of keep it simple where it makes sense still applies. For example, in my closets, laundry room, and one hallway I use a simple motion sensor switch that replaces the wall switch and the cost is $15 to $20 at Lowes or Home Depot. The unit I use is fully adjustable for the light level (to keep it from turnng on during the day if you wish) and also the duraton it will stay on once activated. There are other situations where a more sophisticatd approach is worthwhile and automation rules in combinaton with motion sensors are needed to achieve the desired effect. All in all for my first DIY HA project (my current home) I am very pleased I did about 75% of the curret functionality and about 25% was overkill.

Have fun,
Matt

 

[sic0048]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned or not but one thing I have learned in automating my lighting and security via Insteon, Elk, and Homeseer is that the options for what you can do are only limited by your imagination but the good old rule of keep it simple where it makes sense still applies. For example, in my closets, laundry room, and one hallway I use a simple motion sensor switch that replaces the wall switch and the cost is $15 to $20 at Lowes or Home Depot. The unit I use is fully adjustable for the light level (to keep it from turnng on during the day if you wish) and also the duraton it will stay on once activated. There are other situations where a more sophisticatd approach is worthwhile and automation rules in combinaton with motion sensors are needed to achieve the desired effect. All in all for my first DIY HA project (my current home) I am very pleased I did about 75% of the curret functionality and about 25% was overkill.

Have fun,
Matt

Blah, that's old school.

 

[upstatemike]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned or not but one thing I have learned in automating my lighting and security via Insteon, Elk, and Homeseer is that the options for what you can do are only limited by your imagination but the good old rule of keep it simple where it makes sense still applies. For example, in my closets, laundry room, and one hallway I use a simple motion sensor switch that replaces the wall switch and the cost is $15 to $20 at Lowes or Home Depot. The unit I use is fully adjustable for the light level (to keep it from turnng on during the day if you wish) and also the duraton it will stay on once activated. There are other situations where a more sophisticatd approach is worthwhile and automation rules in combinaton with motion sensors are needed to achieve the desired effect. All in all for my first DIY HA project (my current home) I am very pleased I did about 75% of the curret functionality and about 25% was overkill.

Have fun,
Matt

I agree and I do the same thing for pass-through lights (laundry room, pantry, hallways, stairs.) I go with the slightly more expensive Leviton units though. They are relay based so they can switch any kind of lighting and they don't need a neutral. (Relay works off ground yet they are UL approved!)

 

[Ranger Digital]

beez, a 4 button aux switch (VERY inexpensive, actually has 8 buttons - 4 on and 4 off) should take 12 wires, - + and neural to each. Best to run two cat5's to them. OR you can run a wire from each button to the corresponding dimmer, relay it triggers. HOWEVER, on one of my installs I errored and on used one cat5. After calling on-q's OUTSTANDING support team, they bench tested for me my situation. It was determined that using a common neutral across ALL four buttons allowed me to use all four buttons. ON-q says they wont "support" that config, meaning no announcement that this works. NO big deal.

So, you end up with 3 buttons FULLY controllable for on and off (and dimmable if going to a dimmer) and that takes 7 wires, - and + to each, thats six, and a 7th for the common going to all four buttons. Now you have ONE wire left and you can use it to go to the 4th button and it actually works when you write a program for it, if, when, then, etc. Make sense?

My fourth button works fully as well. I have it going to a fan relay and wrote it to say if fan is on, turn it off, if fan is off turn it on. I wired the fourth buttons on and off together (jumpers the on and off together) so that when I hit either button, on of off it triggers whatever I programmed it to do. Bottomline, i have 4 on buttons and 4 off buttons that work great with only one cat5 .

Thanks to On-Q tech support, I was not screwed with my lack of wire. Theses inexpensive swithces are GREAT since you can have them trigger whatever you want them to trigger, all for under 30 bucks!

ALC is fantastic, the only draw back are the tiny fragile 24 gauge wires require delicate installation. Also, you may run into crazy inspectors that just dont understand it.

 

[beelzerob]

Good to know, Ranger...that's a little more comforting. The worst feeling in the world is the idea that after thousands of dollars and weeks in the freezing winter cold...that it wasn't enough.

 

[Ranger Digital]

Beez, no kidding. The error of only putting one cat5 to a quad switch was a PAYING customer! it would have sucked if we had to get another wire to that quad. On-Q is the ABSOLUTE best for customer service! They call every once and while too to check on things. Can you believe that? Unbelievable.

Next best service is CinemarDave over at Cinemar. That man is DEDICATED to making sure you are working right.

It was nice knowing you can use the quad switch (under $30) to trigger events. Leaves me to wonder why pay closer to a $100 for a programmable switch? While those are nice and easy for us and customers to change lighting on the fly, I can see many instance where I have put programmable switches in and the quad would have worked fine. On-q DOES need to come out with a new quad aux and some people HATE those little tiny weeny buttons. Give me a big 'ol honker with four buttons and THAT would work.