Smoke/Heat Detector advice

[PiperPilot]

I recently purchased a GE Concord 4 security panel and am working to integrate it with Homeseer. I am building out the system now and am ready to add smoke detectors. I am rather confused about the technology and requirements. The install guide lists the following sensors as compatible:

2-Wire Hardwire Smoke Sensor
System Sensor models 2400 or 2400TH
Sentrol (ESL) models 429AT, 521B or 521BXT

4-Wire Hardwire Smoke Sensor
Sentrol (ESL) model 449AT

Wireless Smoke Sensor
60-506 System Sensor Smoke Sensor
60-838-95R 2100ARFT Smoke Sensor
60-848-02-95 ESL 562 Smoke Sensor

I really want sensors that have a builtin sounder as I think that is the safest solution for everyone in the house to be notified of a fire. The AT hardwire smokes listed above don't have that, but there are sister versions that do. I'm wondering why they wouldn't be compatible? What is the biggest difference between 2-wire and 4-wire besides the number of wires? here is some information form the manual that talks about the hardwire hookup.

Zone 8 can be set up in programming to accept 2-wire smoke detectors. It sources 9 to 14 VDC, 90mA max

Zone input 8 can be used with 4-wire smoke detectors that latch and remain in the alarm state until power is removed, then restored to the detector

I don't mind running wire for the smokes if that is the best solution...but what does everything think about the wireless sensors. The price difference isn't that substantial and since I plan on installing around 6-8 the labor for me to install them is definitely worth spending a little bit more money to get them up quicker and spend less time in the attic.

I'm looking for all opinions...especially anyone that happens to use the wireless sensors!

Thanks,
PiperPilot

 

[jasv]

I use both wired and wireless smoke sensors for my Caddx nx-8e system which are also compatible with your GE Concord system. The wireless work very well and I now prefer them because they seem to be smarter. As an example they send a "clean me" request to the panel when they get dusty/dirty from construction. They also send a heartbeat to the panel so you know they are always working. Additionally you can move them around without rewiring if you need to. An of course easier to clean because you can take them down. The ones I have also have an independent sounder.

Luckly, I haven't had any fires to test the difference but stove generated smoke seems to set them off equally. My system started as purely wired and that is the only reason I have them. I wouldn't hesitate to use only wireless now.

 

[gatchel]

I tend to stray away from wireless (anything) security unless absolutely necessary. If you want my opinion, I like and use 4WTA-B System Sensor 4 wire smokes with built in sounders. They will work with any panel. Yes, they are more work but the end result is peace of mind, and no batteries to change...

Others will disagree.

Do a forum search for smoke detectors and you'll find a wealth of information.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Actually, thinking out loud; from a "clean sheet of paper" perspective, IF the wireless smoke detectors are as reliable as noted above, wouldn't they be less susceptible to the general hazards of fire, mainly the damage of the wiring from the smoke detectors to the security system? Would this not give a greater piece of mind, knowing that they can generate an alarm independent of wiring damage (due to the fire) and power loss? (Remeber, this is not my area of expertise )!

 

[jlehnert]

Yes and no. It works both ways.

The requirement for supervision/EOL relay are there to specifically address the cable damage angle. I'd rather have an alarm sound when the wire goes out than have the smoke continue along on battery power (assuming the smoke hasn't already tripped from smoke). Also, the KISS principle applies, and wires are about as simple as you can get.

More telling, wireless is NOT an option for new construction. Wireless can only be used in retrofit situations. (This may have changed with more recent versions of NFPA 72, but I doubt it. The latest I have is the 1999 version, but local governments are SLOW. Several I know of are still using a version from the 80's ).

 

[PiperPilot]

Thanks everyone for the comments...

This is a retrofit situation...I just happen to have good attic access to install them. I really can go either way. I did read all of the posts in the forums...and they all have good advice. Thanks for the vote of confidence if I do go wireless JASV. One thing that is really appealing about the wireless sensors that I don't get with the wired sensors is knowing which sensor tripped the alarm. With wireless each sensor is its own zone and is learned into the wireless group. So if an alarm goes off, I can see which zone tripped and also can have my panel and HA system call out the zone name via voice. With the Concord, I don't think I get this with either 2 or 4 wire.

JASV...which wireless sensors do you use?

Thanks everyone!

 

[jasv]

Thanks everyone for the comments...

This is a retrofit situation...I just happen to have good attic access to install them. I really can go either way. I did read all of the posts in the forums...and they all have good advice. Thanks for the vote of confidence if I do go wireless JASV. One thing that is really appealing about the wireless sensors that I don't get with the wired sensors is knowing which sensor tripped the alarm. With wireless each sensor is its own zone and is learned into the wireless group. So if an alarm goes off, I can see which zone tripped and also can have my panel and HA system call out the zone name via voice. With the Concord, I don't think I get this with either 2 or 4 wire.

JASV...which wireless sensors do you use?

Thanks everyone!

Good point about knowing which smoke sensor tripped the alarm. I use both the caddx nx490 and the ITI nx491nt. The nx491nt has the advantage that it is also a "heat of Rise" sensor which means that it also will trip if the temperature goes up very quickly. I've attached the owners manual.

 

[HighTest]

Just thought I'd mention that I went with the System Sensor 2WTA-B 2 wire smokes with thermal and sounder. http://www.systemsensor.com/html/cd.html?UniqueID=59

To meet the requirement that all the sounders sound as the same time, I also used a reversing relay, RRS-MOD. http://www.systemsensor.com/html/cd.html?UniqueID=59

Granted, I'm using an Elk M1G panel rather than a concord, but I was able to use the reversing relay in combination with a rule that triggered it when the smoke detector went off. For panels that don't have programmable relay outputs, the RRS-MOD is designed to connect to the alarm/bell circuit to trigger the sounders on all the smokes.

The RRS-MOD relay module is also used for their 4 wire version, the 4WTA-B.

 

[Mike P]

Hi,

I'm using GE 541NCSXTE Smokes. They are four wire and have a built in relay for power supervision as well as a sounder and heat detector. I have about 12, All wired to there own zones on my elk. Any troubles or alarms are shown and reported as the exact device. Don't forget, If you use four wire smokes, You must monitor the power at the last detector for trouble.

Mike

 

[felixrosbergen]

For new construction is it generally required by code that all sounders all sound when I sensor detects smokes?

My plans was to run AC smoke sensors with battery backup that have an external relay that the security panel (ELK) can monitor (GE ESL350CC).

A differnent version of these sensors (GE ESL350CX) has the option to trigger others to sound, but this woudl require additional wiring (wiring from sensor to sensor rather than home runs to the ELK.

Alternatively one could run 22/4 to these AC sensors and then 'gang' them in the wiring closet. I woudl assume however that if the simulatenous sounding is a code requirement this would mean that this wiring would have to be 18/4 Firewire.

Is it is a code requirement then so be it. But for my peace off mind the individual sounder blaring immediatly is good enough and i will configure the ELK to alert the rest of the house (lights on, buzzers, bells, etc).

Whats the good word from the expert? Simultaneous sounding a requirement?

I like the AC sensors with battery backup for the additional peace of mind that they will work even when the ELK is out.

 

[Mike P]

In addition to my Elk smokes, I also have the original 13 110vac interconnected and battery backed up smoke detectors I installed when building my house. This way I have all of the codes covered and then some.

Mike