Wireless key alternetive using z-wave sensor?

[BrownChiLD]

Hi guys

I wanted a wireless / automated key to my apartment powered by z-wave network... i was wondering if this was possible...
i DONT have the zwave stuffs here yet (still waiting) but i was wondring if this was possible.
 
The idea is that I am to carry a wireless device in my pocket, and when i come near my door, the door will unlock automatically.
SmartThings.com actually has this already:
http://www.smartthings.com/things/

SmartSense Presence
"This is small, keychain-sized device to track the comings and goings of loved ones and pets. The SmartSense Presence tag will generate ‘away’ and ‘returned’ events when it is moved in and out of range of the SmartThings Hub. Depending on the construction of your home and location of the hub, that distance could be anywhere between 50 and 150 feet. Place the SmartSense Presence in a car and receive alerts when the car leaves or returns. Place it on a pet’s collar to get notified when the pet leaves the yard or goes on a walk with the dog walker. Place in a child’s backpack to receive notifications when they leave for and return from school. Powered by a CR2032 coin cell battery (included). ZigBee-based. Should not be exposed to moisture when used outside. Overall Size: 2.2” x .5” x 1.4”."
 
I think this was pretty smart! but then I am not in the SmartThings band wagon, and i wanted to go Z-wave .. and just program the HA software to do something similar.


I initially thought of RFID but this is expensive stuff (long range RFID)..

Searched around and there seems to be no Z-wave PRESENCE sensor of some sort..

Then i realized, hey, why not use z-wave sensors for Door Access sensor, or temperature sensor, or even motion sensor, anything that's cheap!

i thought this because
1) Basically these little battery powered sensors could last years on a single battery
2) it's basically the same concept, where the sensor is constantly broadcasting status (temperature for example) to the server and i just need the server to do SOMETHING when this specific sensor is in range , eg. OPEN LOCK

Do you guys think this is a good plan?

regards

 

[az1324]

1) Basically these little battery powered sensors could last years on a single battery
2) it's basically the same concept, where the sensor is constantly broadcasting status

 
The only reason the batteries last years is because they are not constantly broadcasting.  Even the smartthings sensor does not mention unlocking doors most likely because it does not transmit often enough.  Most of the new sensors are using BLE (bluetooth low energy).  Check out KEVO.  Actually, even with KEVO you have to touch the lock to open it since it doesn't want to waste its battery looking for sensors all the time.

 

[tmbrown97]

I've recently been looking into Bluetooth LE as az1324 mentioned - there's a new lock that just funded from Indigogo called the Goji that I'll probably get: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/goji-smart-lock
 
I also was in contact with a company yesterday that makes the same equivalent for a car - so it can unlock as you approach based on your phone - this product should be available pretty soon: http://bluetoothkeyless.info
 
I do like the idea of bluetooth since we carry our phones just about everywhere.  I would be fine with a separate transponder which Goji has - lets you track when others come/go, and even lets you email a digital key to others should you have houseguests who need to get in.
 
Now the trick will be alerting the rest of my automation system of this activity so it can act on it - since it's wifi it can talk to the network; now just need to do something actionable with it.

 

[Tuicemen]

Not sure if   the BlueWatch(BT)  program would do what your looking for  but it will perform tasks when specific blue tooth devices are detected.
There also is a Wi-Fi version that performs tasks when Wi-Fi devices are detected.
These will also perform tasks when the device is lost(device is no longer detected)

 

[urdiz]

Hey all! 
 
I'm a hardware dev at SmartThings so I can shed some light on how we do it. The presence tag emits a check-in every 30 seconds, when the hub misses a pre-determined amount of check-ins we assume to to be gone. When we get a single check-in we assume to be home. Our tag is ZigBee and wakes up and emits a packet the goes immediately back to sleep. Alternatively you can also use your phone as a presence tag.
 
Server side can launch actions based on that, so if you get home you can unlock the doors automatically or whatever. I have my house setup so when my presence tag is home and my front door opens my lights dim up. I'd just have the lights turn on as I arrive, but I like to watch them dim up when I walk in 
 
/spiel
 
As far as a Z-Wave only network, I like the stuff coming out of Aeon Labs. They work great on our system and lots of re-sellers brand them as "Compatible with Mi Casa Verde." I also like the general look. Two products of theirs came immediately to my mind for your application:
 
The Key Fob - http://amzn.com/B00A0A4K42
 
Panic Alarm - http://amzn.com/B00D3CUAMA
 
Both of those are controllers so they would have to be setup as secondary controllers to your primary controller/hub. Not a too big of a deal with Z-Wave. You could even pair a device to both of those (like a porch light) and you could trigger it as you get out of the car. Only downside to those is you have to physically interact with your tag. Not a huge deal, you do it with your car keys (for now, amirite?).
 
Right now those are the only two keyfob types of devices. I was thinking you may be able to find a small temperature sensor and send it a configuration command to check in every minute. Depending what controller/hub you're using you may be able to setup a rule that says something like:
 
When you see a temp from -20F - 200F
    Do unlock door
 
So basically any check-in could act like a presence tag. Unless you live in Antarctica or Arizona

 

[etc6849]

This presence idea sounds interesting...  However, I'd think you'd want a way to detect occupancy in the home too.  You'd probably want to only use the presence sensor iff the home was unoccupied.  If you didn't, just walking  by the door in the middle of the night with your key chain or whatever could unlock it and disarm your alarm?
 
The smart-lock looks nice.  However, I'm skeptical of any electronic lock without rubber seals on each side of the door.  I live in a humid area, and I actually had a Kwikset go bad from condensation in the lock.  I replaced it with a Yale Z-Wave lock and the Yale has really nice silicone rubber seals you install.  Next time I won't be so cheap in buying something that has to endure the environment...
 
Personally, I always liked the idea of a driveway sensor, but I've been too lazy to put one in.  If you google on here and don't mind using X10, there's a DS10a hack to do this.
 
Also, depending on which system you're using... if you can send a URL to toggle the door, you could use an NFC tag as discussed here:
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/22138-nfc-tags-and-premise-for-6-or-less-requires-an-android-based-phone-with-nfc-support/

 

[tmbrown97]

How often do you walk around your house with your keys in your hand in the middle of the night?  I definitely don't!  In fact, I probably shouldn't say this in public, but I just leave my keys in the car (which is however in the secure/alarmed garage). I also know at least the lock that I posted says it can tell if you're inside our outside the door and controls accordingly.
 
Also, while X10 powerline is a bit antiquated and unreliable, X10RF is pretty handy, though not secure; with a W800RF32, it can be used with any system; I use it in my automation system to do UPB things.

 

[pete_c]

urdiz,
 
Welcome to Coocoontech.  Lots of friendly folks here.
 
Neat stuff on the Kickstarter.   Like that Smarthings hub box.  Neato concept.
 
Many folks; todays "yuts" primarily depend on the phones for all and any internet access and today are tethered 24/7.
 
Adding a small monthly fee to remote their home will not ding any pocketbooks.
 
I like that zigbee tag you mention. 
 
I do put my keys in one spot in the house and do a follow me autoforward on my cell phone so its basically never used in the home and typically is shut off after it autoforwards to whatever land line I am by and in the phones DB.
 
That said lately take a tablet anywhere I have to wait and sit and do whatever on the internet as its easier than using my PDA phone; more of an on demand connection though using cellular or whatever; then just shutting off the tablet; literally just taking what I want almost a one way conversation these days.
 
I am weaning myself off of "the cloud" trying to make my automation self sufficient; maybe that is the old fashioned in me though or some odd selfishness in me.  This and testing the concept (personally) for a friend building an automated home off the grid in a place with no infrastructure connectivity; even cellular unless he puts up a tower or uses satellite for his new home.  He does want touchscreens and tablets everywhere; but only connected to his home automation functions and maybe some occassional on demand internet access.  (old modem connection like; taking info, downloading emails and then shutting down the connection type stuff?)

 

[etc6849]

Work2Play: Sounds like a really "smart"-lock.  I haven't seen another one that detects which side you are on...
 
You are definitely right, the W800RF32 and DS10a are not secure.  Sometime ago I posted a driver/Premise module I created that supports a plethora of X10 RF devices (both "secure and non-secure) via the W800RF32:
http://cocoontech.com/forums/files/file/159-w800rf32-driver-for-premise-supports-all-x10-rf-devices-standard-and-security/
 
It wasn't hard at all to reverse engineer the X10 RF protocol.  Also, despite being an X10 "secure" device, the bytes the DS10A shows on the W800RF32's port do not change unless you reset it, so it would be easy for someone to hack (just capture the waveform and retransmit it later).  I use the X10 palm pads with my z-wave lights, to trigger a goodnight event, etc...  For the $5 price point, it's hard to beat the palm pads and the DS10a's.
 
I used to have an X10 keybob that could unlock my home after you hit a series of buttons, but quickly got paranoid and switched to an Elk two-way keyfob.  Still you have to hit a series of buttons with the Elk keyfobs too (since I'm still paranoid), but at least they are enrolled into the system (via a special unique code/keyfob) and frequency hop too.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Kwikset either has or is near coming out with a lock that can link up with your bluetooth phone and you just 'tap' it to open it once that presence is linked/detected.  Really cool, non complicated simple and reliable setup.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymFTt-xxT_I