Adding extra power to the data bus

jbrandwood

New Member
I'm planning to install an M1 in a small 2 story office building remodel that I'm doing.

It's looking like the data bus is going to be pretty loaded, and I'd like to know how to get it more power.

I'm planning for ...

1 Elk M1KP1 keypad + internal prox reader.
3 Elk M1KP2 keypads.
6 Elk M1KAM access modules.
6 Rosslare AY-Q12 anti-vandal prox readers (100mA each).
1 Elk M1XOVR relay output for door strikes.
1 Elk M1XIN for extra inputs.
2 Elk M1XSP interfaces for thermostats.
1 Elk M1XSP interface for lighting control.
1 Elk M1TWI listen-in interface + 3 microphones.

I'm expecting to need an ELK-P412 to power the door strikes.

Can I also use it to power the data bus instead of, or in addition to, the M1?

How would I wire it? Is there an example circuit diagram for adding extra power to the M1's data bus?

Will I need to run the data bus with wire thicker than CAT5 to handle this power load?

Thanks,

John.
 
I don't think the databus power needs to come necesarilly from the M1, you may need to tie the NEG's of the M1 and a P412 together to get a common reference..but it should probably work...

But don't listen to me...i actually blew up my databus and had to buy a whole new board. ughh...
 
You definitely need the extra power. I would power one keypad off of the M1 itself and the zone expander and some or all of the KAM's. The rest off of the Aux supply.

Make sure you have enough battery backup. 2 8 ah for the panel and two for the aux supply. I would also go for the 28 inch cabinet etc.

With a large order like that shop around for the best price from an authorized reseller or distributor.

Also consider a few GRI-2800 water sensors in your application. They are inexpensive, easy to install, and can be a real life saver.
 
Other then things like the keypads are you going to put everything into one enclosure?

I have three enclosures in my system, in different parts of the house. Each has its own P412 and battery. The M1 is running off the power supply that came with the M1. Most of the expansion boards in the enclosure housing the M1 run off the P412 supply. All of the boards in the other enclosures run off the P412 supply. The positive outputs of the various power supplies are NOT connected together but the grounds are. I also added to each enclosure an ELK 12v relay board. These relays are triggered by the positive power connection of the M1 itself. The positive outputs of the P412 power supplies are connected to their loads via these relays. So when I turn off the power to the M1 with the switch on the M1, the relays remove power from everything else.
 
I also added to each enclosure an ELK 12v relay board. These relays are triggered by the positive power connection of the M1 itself. The positive outputs of the P412 power supplies are connected to their loads via these relays. So when I turn off the power to the M1 with the switch on the M1, the relays remove power from everything else.

Great Idea!
 
Other then things like the keypads are you going to put everything into one enclosure?

I'm thinking that the M1KAM modules should be close to or above each controlled doorway and prox reader, and that the M1XSP modules should be closer to the thermostats/lighting than the M1 enclosure itself.

So I'm guessing that I should probably run one M1DBH off the M1's power for the local master keypad and the expansion cards, and then run a 2nd M1DBH off the P412 power for all the other devices.

I also added to each enclosure an ELK 12v relay board. These relays are triggered by the positive power connection of the M1 itself. The positive outputs of the P412 power supplies are connected to their loads via these relays. So when I turn off the power to the M1 with the switch on the M1, the relays remove power from everything else.

That's a really great idea! I'll definitely do that.
 
I'm thinking that the M1KAM modules should be close to or above each controlled doorway and prox reader, and that the M1XSP modules should be closer to the thermostats/lighting than the M1 enclosure itself.
That's always an option but imho it is a much nicer install to put all the M1 components in the central can (or even a remote can), but not by the components themselves. Think about it for second - take a stat - all it needs is 1 cat5 to the XSP, so it is much better to run a cat 5 from the stat to the can into the XSP instead of having to find a temperature controlled spot for the XSP and run cat5 to the bus. Still same cat5, but having the XSP in the can is a better option for troubleshooting and svc imho. Same with lighting - depending on lighting of course, but say with UPB you use a serial cord and PIM - easier to have that all in the can/closet than to find a spot for it and run a longer data bus cable.

Where I see value of distributed components is maybe in a multifloor type setting and you perhaps have a remote can and hub with components there. But I don't see value in trying to distribute the XSP's, etc out
 
Make sure you have enough battery backup. 2 8 ah for the panel and two for the aux supply. I would also go for the 28 inch cabinet etc.

Also consider a few GRI-2800 water sensors in your application. They are inexpensive, easy to install, and can be a real life saver.

Thanks, that's good advice. I'm also planning to power both the M1 and the P412 from a large UPS for extra runtime.

The water sensors are a great idea as well ... there'll be a water heater located fairly close the the M1 panel.
 
imho it is a much nicer install to put all the M1 components in the central can (or even a remote can), but not by the components themselves.

Where I see value of distributed components is maybe in a multifloor type setting and you perhaps have a remote can and hub with components there. But I don't see value in trying to distribute the XSP's, etc out

In general, I totally agree. However there are some practical limitations that must be considered on my particular job.

For instance, 1 centrally located XSP in a closet can talk to 4 nearby Omnistats, but I'd have RS232 length problems home running each thermostat.

I'd like to have the M1 in the electrical/server room, but that has to be 1hr fire rated, which will make running extra wires in the future very difficult.

The lighting control will be in the server room.

The M1KAMs should be close to the actual prox readers.

At some point it becomes easier to have distributed components, even if that has it's own set of problems.
 
Thanks, that's good advice. I'm also planning to power both the M1 and the P412 from a large UPS for extra runtime.

Remember that with running a large UPS the M1 wont really know if there is power loss as the ups will be holding it up and wont be able to notify you/your user/the alarm company that you lost power. And when it does finally go out then you already have been without power and heat for how long? IMHO, You might want to just add a larger cap battery/more batteries to the senerio instead
 
Thanks, that's good advice. I'm also planning to power both the M1 and the P412 from a large UPS for extra runtime.

Remember that with running a large UPS the M1 wont really know if there is power loss as the ups will be holding it up and wont be able to notify you/your user/the alarm company that you lost power. And when it does finally go out then you already have been without power and heat for how long? IMHO, You might want to just add a larger cap battery/more batteries to the senerio instead
You could somehow use the serial port/ethernet/USB or whatever the particular UPS has on board to communicate the failure to the ELK. Has anyone got one of these to talk to an ELK, I wonder?
 
You could somehow use the serial port/ethernet/USB or whatever the particular UPS has on board to communicate the failure to the ELK. Has anyone got one of these to talk to an ELK, I wonder?

Easier solution - just use a small DC wall wart off of one of the surge protected but non-UPS'ed 120V outlets on the UPS to an input on the M1. When the main power goes down, the UPS keeps things up but the M1 knows right away! No need for USB ports or an M1XSP to the UPS.
 
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