ATI AT2007... my first amp

[etc6849]

I came across what I think is a good deal on an American made amp, conservatively rated 200 watt x 7 channel amp with all channels driven over 20-20kHz (full bandwidth).  
 
I'm not sure what wholesale cost is on it, but it was just under 50% of the $4000 MSRP with a 7 year warranty direct from the factory.  ATI makes a lot of other amps too, so they might be worth looking into if you need one.  The AT2007 is basically the same amp as the Lexicon RX-7 ($6000) and Outlaw 7700 ($2149) as ATI makes amps for various manufacturers in the same factory.  (Isn't Lexicon shameless in their pricing?!?)  There maybe other disguised AT2007's out there too.  ATI also owns B&K and Theta Digital.
 
 
I've been using Onkyo's TX-NR905 a/v receiver (old flagship model) to power my speakers as I got a 60% deal on it from Fry's.  I wonder if I'll hear a difference or not when the AT2007 arrives.  The TX-NR905 is beefy, but it's power rating is not over the full bandwidth and definitely not with all channels driven.
 
EIA 1kHz Output Power at 8 Ohms* 250 watts
EIA 1kHz Output Power at 4 Ohms*  375 watts
FTC Full Bandwidth Output Power at 8 Ohms** 200 watts 
FTC Full Bandwidth Output Power at 4 Ohms** 300 watts
Input Sensitivity for Full Rated Power 1.6 Volts
Frequency Response ±0.1dB from 20Hz to 20kHz at 1 watt 
Phase Response: +5 to -15 degrees from 20Hz to 20kHz at 1 watt
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: A-Weighted Greater than 120dB below rated FTC full bandwidth power
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) Less than 0.03% at full rated FTC power from 20Hz to 20kHz Less than 0.005% at full EIA power at 1kHz
Intermodulation Distortion (IMD) Less than 0.03% from 250 milliwatts to full rated FTC power
Load Impedance Safe with all types of loads. Rated for 4 to 16 ohms
Power Bandwidth FTC +0-3db from 5Hz to 100kHz
Damping Factor Greater than 400 from 10Hz to 400Hz
Crosstalk Greater than -100dB from 20Hz to 20kHz
Dimensions: 17 x 7 x 16.5
Net weight: 93lbs
 
 

http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at2007-seven-channel-x-200-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html
http://www.ati-amp.com/AT2000.php
 

 

[dgage]

Nice! They also make Emotiva amps, which have a very loyal following. I was looking at ATI amps just last weekend but went with a (supposedly) more musical amp in a NAD C272. For home theater I would consider an Emotiva but would also strongly consider the ATI you bought.

For distributed audio I bought 4 Parasound HCA-1000A amps off eBay instead of a 16 channel distributed audio amp with half the power. Should be fun figuring it all out.

 

[etc6849]

I think Emotiva amps are made in China (could be wrong), but I'm pretty sure ATI doesn't make them.
 
The power supply on the AT2007 I ordered has a two toroidal transformers with ratings of 1.6kVA and 1.04kVA, along with capacitance of 30,000 uF per channel.  This power supply seems comparable to other companies 300 watt amps!
 
The Emotiva XPA-5 has a transformer rating: 1,200VA and capacitance of 60,000 uF.  To me this seems wimpy for a class AB amp and the THD seems high at .1%. 
 
The Emotiva XPR-5 has a 3.3 kVA toroidal power transformer and 180,000 uF of storage capacitance.  The XPR-5 seems like a nice amp for the $1999 price!  I definitely would have ordered if I could see and hear it locally, but otherwise buying foreign made products online is too risky for me.  I do think their reference line looks nice based on specs, but I wouldn't buy any of their other amps though.
 
You could also register for Outlaws secret sale and hope they have the Outlaw 7900 onsale in May for $2499.  It's ATI's AT3007, which is even bigger than the AT2007!  The power supply in the AT3007 is about 20% larger than the amp I ordered.

 

[mdesmarais]

Unless something very strange happened, Mark Levinson is owned by Harman. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the ML amps are built by ATI.

 

[etc6849]

I think you are right! I was going off of memory...

 

[dgage]

I'm pretty sure they're all owned by Harmon, including ATI.
 
And I think the amps I was thinking of that were made by ATI were Sherbourn amps, which was bought by Emotiva.  So we were both right?
 
Either way, I hadn't heard of ATI before my research last weekend but I did learn about them and their reputation is solid.  For 2 stereo music, they aren't supposedly as musical as other amps, at least according to MY research.  However, for home theater, they would be awesome.  I came across the same site you posted to get a discount on their amps...I will definitely consider it in the future.
 
And what the heck are you doing recommending an amp in the Outlaw 7900 that would require me to not only get new speakers but a new living room as well.   I was a supposed car stereo aficionado/audiophile in my youth and I remember how expensive that was.  I don't want to get back on that hamster wheel with the even more expensive home audio.   It's bad enough I'm been looking at getting some in wall speakers and have started looking at the Triad speakers, which can get a little pricey if you go up a few levels.  But of course, nice speakers need a nice amp.  See what I mean about the hamster wheel!
 
David

 

[etc6849]

I'm kind of kicking myself for not getting the the AT3007 aka Outlaw 7900 for $2999 as it was offered.  However, my Klipsch RF-83 speakers have a 250 watt rms rating (1000W max).  ATI told me with my efficient speakers I would hear no audible difference between the two amps (plus you'd have to do electrical work to run the AT3007 or the Outlaw 7900).  I'm not sure if I'd hear a difference or not and will forever wonder, but another guy on the Outlaw forums posted that Outlaw and they told him the same thing between the 7700 and 7900.
 

If you are thinking about ATI and want the best price, check out the link I posted earlier.  Drop them an email at [email protected] for the best possible price.  You'll get a reply back from ATI as the site is owned and operated by ATI directly.  Jeff at ATI is pretty nice and took off a lot of $$$ on the posted price for me so it doesn't hurt to ask.
 
The big difference between Outlaw and ATI is ATI gives a full 7 year warranty and you can get a rack mountable version of the amp and even change the number of channels.  I think value wise the AT2007 is the better option unless you get the $2499 deal on the 7900 (which may or may not happen this year), or unless you don't need 7 channels.
 

PS:  I'd pay little attention to a review that says one amp is not as "musical" as the other.  I saw that review too, but in my mind a reviewer has no technical expertise if they can't elaborate and provide actual technical justification for such a statement.  The amp is advertised with to be flat within +/- .1dB across any frequency any human can hear.  To me I'd rather have accurate, uncolored sound, just like the guy in the recording studio did when he/she made the CD.
 
Similarly, with loud speakers if it's +/- 3dB flat from 29 to 21,000 Hz (as the Klipsch RF-83's are) who cares what brand it is as it should reproduce what was intended just fine.  Spend your extra money on room treatments instead as your room will greatly affect the sound and that's where you'll get the most value.  Of course, I'm not saying you don't need big speakers, because I think you do; wall speakers would not cut it for me, but I have a spare room to use as a make shift theater.
 
I'll try to remember to post a brief review after I get the amp.  I have very high expectations, but we'll see how much of a difference the amp makes.  I recently added a second matched sub-woofer (Klispch RT-12d with two passive drivers and one active, w/800 watt RMS amp); it made a huge (night and day) difference in flattening my room's effect on bass response.  Multiple subs is another thing to think about if you have the space.

 

[dgage]

Don't forget to use $100 a foot speaker cable or your amp will sound bad.   And don't dare use the OEM power cord as it won't be able to move the juice like a gold core power cord would.  J/K.
 
I agree with what you say but frankly I wasn't looking at amps at all until I bought a pair of Definitive Technology UIW UCS II in ceiling speakers for my kitchen.  I wanted some nice speakers for the kitchen and after looking at the options for the difficult space, that is what I decided upon.  I was thinking about Triad in ceiling speakers, which are supposed to be some of the best in wall/ceiling speakers available but decided that the source material I would be feeding it wouldn't be worth the more expensive speakers.  I will be driving the DefTechs with a NAD C272 and crossover duties will be handled by a digital MiniDSP 4x10HD.  And my kitchen will have a small sub, a Sunfire HRS-10.  Should be pretty damn nice I would think...especially for a kitchen but I won't find out for another 2 weeks when everything should arrive. 
 
While I could use a room as a dedicated theater, I want to reduce my footprint and go for multi-use rooms, which just means the equipment has to be more flexible or won't be "optimal".  I'll go listen to Triads later when I plan to update my living room and see if I will like the in wall/ceiling speakers.  Right now I'm running Focal Sib XL speakers that I got a real good deal on when a stereo store went out of business.  They sound nice enough for the limited movie watching we do but I'd rather go for a more stealth install.
 
Frankly I was happy being ignorant about amplifiers and now my wallet will be upset that the veil has been lifted.
 
David

 

[etc6849]

No doubt it's expensive.  I have a normal job like most folks on here, so it was definitely a lot of money to me! 
 
If you don't have a dedicated room, you are better off.  If you did, you'd eventually want a projector, screen, theater seating, etc...  It quickly becomes expensive.  However, I can tell you that watching movies on a PJ is night and day compared to my over saturated 46" samsung tv.  Not only can I see more detail, the picture is perfectly even from any angle.
 
Nothing is wrong with used speakers in my opinion.  All of my speakers were either demo or off of ebay.  I'd suggest used Klipsch RF-83's, but I'm biased  They originally sold for $1600 each, but you can find a nice pair for $800-$1000 used if you watch craigslist and ebay.  I think Klipsch offers the best bang for the buck, but I wouldn't buy the Klipsch they sell at best buy.  I'd stick with the top end of their reference line, but buy used.

 

[etc6849]

The AT2007 sounds great!  The biggest difference is the bass sounds much more tight and accurate.  The next biggest difference is small details like when someone breaths in, a car door shuts, etc... are many times more prevalent especially at low volumes; they sound much more realistic (especially gun shots)!  Voice is also much more understandable, even at ridiculously low volume levels.
 
I just reran Audyssey to set the speaker levels so that the pre-out voltage had a much smaller range (speaker levels are the only way to adjust preout level).  Playing pretty loud (97dB or so at the listening position) music, the amp never clips.  However, I'd say if you need to get louder than 97dB, go with its bigger brother the AT3007 if you want to drive five or more channels at that level with no clipping at all.

 

[dgage]

Glad to hear. Well my amps arrived and I can definitely tell the NAD C272 I purchased used is more musical than the Parasound HCA1000 amps I also bought used. I'm waiting on the new Def Tech UIW RCS II speakers that should be here this week, which I will pair with the NAD amp and a Sunfire HRS-10 amp in our kitchen. The HCA-1000 amps will eventually drive speakers in various rooms with Sonos as their primary source.

I did sign up for the Outlaw Audio mailing list you suggested but I'm not sure I need a King Kong amp like the 3007. Because then I'd have to buy a Submerssive sub to go with it.

But it is really good to hear the amps are nice and even better, you are happy with it in your system.

David

 

[etc6849]

I've listened to a lot of music tonight and I'm very impressed with the AT2007.  The sound stage is so much wider.  I had no idea how under powered my 45 pound Onkyo receiver was!?!  I'd think any of the AT200x amps would be great for music or movies.  I only listened to a few movie clips, but music is phenomenal on them so far.  Even my wife can hear the difference.
 
I bi-amped my mains as the Onkyo allows you to use its internal bi-amping capability with the pre-outs (but you lose the surround back channels).  I do intend on using 7.1 at some point, but I wanted to see if this would work and it does.
 
I'd try to get two matched subs; there is a huge improvement...  This is a good explanation:  http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/two-subs  If only I could get back all the years of movie watching with only one sub!