Can M1G differentiate a btwn a contact opening a zone or an EOL being shorted out?

[benze]

Hi,

I've been looking at some CO detectors that wire themselves as NC circuits with a trouble relay in series with the EOLR. The trouble relay is NC and opens if the detector needs maintenance. On the other hand, the detector signals an alarm condition by shorting the EOLR. (ex: see http://www.systemsensor.com/pdf/I56-3111.pdf page 4).

So basically, in case of trouble/maintenance, you get an open circuit.
In case of alarm, you get a 0 ohm closed circuit.

Can the M1G differentiate between the two types of signals/information on a single zone?

Thanks,

Eric

 

[icellama21]

So basically, in case of trouble/maintenance, you get an open circuit.
In case of alarm, you get a 0 ohm closed circuit.

Eric

This is the definition of a NO(normally open) circuit with EOL resistor. This is the standard case and the M1G supports it. You will get a trouble condition on an open circuit, normal with EOL(2200 ohm) and alarm with closed(0 ohm). This is the same operation as the system sensor 4-wire smoke detectors you were mentioning in another thread(minus the relay). The relay to open the circuit when maintenance is needed is a handy way to get notification on 4-wire system. If you are confused I would highly recommend consulting with a professional.

 

[benze]

So basically, in case of trouble/maintenance, you get an open circuit.
In case of alarm, you get a 0 ohm closed circuit.

Eric

This is the definition of a NO(normally open) circuit with EOL resistor. This is the standard case and the M1G supports it. You will get a trouble condition on an open circuit, normal with EOL(2200 ohm) and alarm with closed(0 ohm).

My confusion comes from the M1G docs. In it, they have a nifty table that describes the 3-states:

Resistance		   Armed Condition		 Disarmed Condition
Short				   Alarm				   Not Ready
2.2kOhm (EOLR)		  normal				  Ready
Open					Alarm				   Not Ready

So although I realize that the M1G will be able to trigger on either condition, my question is can one program a different condition based on the resistance. For instance, if you have an open circuit (ie: loss of power on a 4wire smoke), I wouldn't necessarily want the alarm to go off and notify the monitoring company, but rather inform me on the keypad or by email (via the M1XEP) that there is a failure.

The documentation relates to a "Fire Trouble" condition in the case of an open circuit (vs a Fire Alarm in the case of a short circuit), but doesn't seem to indicate what the Fire Trouble condition means. Or at least, I couldn't find it anywhere in the docs.

Thanks,

Eric

 

[Sandpiper]

So basically, in case of trouble/maintenance, you get an open circuit.
In case of alarm, you get a 0 ohm closed circuit.

Eric

This is the definition of a NO(normally open) circuit with EOL resistor. This is the standard case and the M1G supports it. You will get a trouble condition on an open circuit, normal with EOL(2200 ohm) and alarm with closed(0 ohm).

My confusion comes from the M1G docs. In it, they have a nifty table that describes the 3-states:

Resistance		   Armed Condition		 Disarmed Condition
Short				   Alarm				   Not Ready
2.2kOhm (EOLR)		  normal				  Ready
Open					Alarm				   Not Ready

So although I realize that the M1G will be able to trigger on either condition, my question is can one program a different condition based on the resistance. For instance, if you have an open circuit (ie: loss of power on a 4wire smoke), I wouldn't necessarily want the alarm to go off and notify the monitoring company, but rather inform me on the keypad or by email (via the M1XEP) that there is a failure.

The documentation relates to a "Fire Trouble" condition in the case of an open circuit (vs a Fire Alarm in the case of a short circuit), but doesn't seem to indicate what the Fire Trouble condition means. Or at least, I couldn't find it anywhere in the docs.

Thanks,

Eric

This table is for burglar zones. It is not quite right for a "fire" zone. For a fire zone, a short is alarm, EOLR is normal, and open is trouble. The M1 supports a fire zone correctly even though the manual may not specifically show a table on how. This is standard in the industry.

Fire trouble is when the circuit is open. It can be caused by a number of things, such as a detector which tripped and is not yet reset, or a broken wire.

 

[benze]

This table is for burglar zones. It is not quite right for a "fire" zone. For a fire zone, a short is alarm, EOLR is normal, and open is trouble. The M1 supports a fire zone correctly even though the manual may not specifically show a table on how. This is standard in the industry.

Fire trouble is when the circuit is open. It can be caused by a number of things, such as a detector which tripped and is not yet reset, or a broken wire.

So what is the behaviour of the M1 when it detects a Fire Trouble zone? Does it just display it on the keypad? Can I program different types of alerts based on it? Does it report to monitoring that there is a trouble zone, but not a tripped alarm?

Thanks for the info,

Eric

 

[Sandpiper]

So what is the behaviour of the M1 when it detects a Fire Trouble zone? Does it just display it on the keypad? Can I program different types of alerts based on it? Does it report to monitoring that there is a trouble zone, but not a tripped alarm?

It does display fire trouble in the keypad. Any number of other actions are optional and programmable. It will report fire trouble to the central station if the M1 is set up for this, just like it can report trouble for any zone. It can report a fire alarm to the central station or not, just like any other zone. It can send emails on trouble or not. This is all in the manual, I cannot re-write the manual here.

I'd suggest you take a closer look at the manual, and then if you have specific questions, ask here.

 

[benze]

I'd suggest you take a closer look at the manual, and then if you have specific questions, ask here.

Ok - excellent. Thanks for the information. I looked through the M1G manual, but didn't see it at first glance. I'll have to take a more careful read through it and see if I can find it. But thanks for the info; that confirms what I was originally suspecting.

Thanks,

Eric