Cheap ways of extending VGA, USB, Serial, etc.

[electron]

So I am looking for cheap (and hopefully legal) ways to extend the VGA, USB and serial signal from my ELO touchscreen to my basement. It's probably about a 40ft run, and I am hoping to avoid having to use 'powered' adapters in the wall. I have seen various methods mentioned, but I am sure others have come up with some clever ideas as well. If you have done anything like this, please post your setup.

I currently have 1 CAT5e run, but I can run more of these if needed. I am also wondering how you dealt with the power issue (is an outlet inside a wall code compliant?). Thanks!

 

[Neurorad]

I was just researching a wireless serial solution this morning.

I found a bluetooth option that looks interesting:

http://www.wcscnet.com/HdwBTRS232.htm

can use USB or AC, $160/pair

I'm afraid I have no personal experience with this - not what you're looking for, I know.

I would prefer a proven solution myself.

 

[beelzerob]

Maybe I don't understand the question, but for VGA I just bought a 50 ft VGA cable from monoprice.com, so that extends that. Then for serial, 50 ft is nothing. For USB, I don't think it can make it that far, so one option is to put powered USB hubs in the middle and buy USB extension cables again from monoprice.com. This assumes you can run more wire, of course, instead of only having the 1 cat5.

For powering the touchscreens, I had an outlet put in either directly below the site, which puts it in the basement, or directly above the site which puts it in the attic. I then plugged in an extension cord and ran it to the touchscreen site before the walls were closed up. So, there's no actual outlet in the wall, but there would be things plugged in there. If the touchscreen includes a brick, I think I can extend those wires to be in the attic or basement instead of buried in the wall.

 

[electron]

I guess my issue with that approach is that I need to drill holes which are large enough to fit the VGA/Power cords, which is pretty hard to do in this location.

 

[sic0048]

Most of the baluns also only require power at one end. So you could get a USB cat5 extender and only power the source end. The units I use are small boxes - about 2"x4"x1" and could probably be stuck right to the back of the screen using velcro, etc.

 

[beelzerob]

Ok, ya...that'd be a problem. I seem to remember having to drill 3 overlapping 1" holes in the wall to get those through.

 

[roussell]

I've toyed with the idea of making a long, heavy-gauge USB cable to test the maximum length. If you power the USB device locally, or from a separate set of wires and then push the data+ and data- signals through a separate set of twisted pair, I'm thinking it may be possible with low-speed devices such as touch-screens. I've got some shielded, twisted pair 14 gauge two conductor wire that I plan on testing when I return from a business trip. My situation is similar to yours; I need about 45 feet from touchscreen to PC. An already-purchased 50 foot VGA extension works well at my screen's max resolution of 1024x768 and I'm hoping the extension cord will do the trick for the USB side.

My plan for the USB is to run two cables - a 14 gauge power cable that steals power from the PCs 5 volt rail and connects to pins 1 and 4 at the remote end USB connector and a separate shielded twisted pair for the data+ and data- (pins 2 and 3) at the remote connector. Why 14 gauge? Because I don't have any 12 or 10. I don't know if I need the shielded cable or not, but it's what I happen to have lying around.

Here's a site that shows the pinouts and the maximum cable length per wire gauge. It only goes to 5 meters/20 gauge though.

I'll post back my results but I won't be home for another week to try it out.

Terry

 

[CollinR]

If you do USB well enough that might be all you need, just put a powered hub behind the screen.

It depends on what you consider inside the wall... You cannot cover over an outlet with drywall but you can install an outlet in the bottom of an alarm can and make the cover your TS. Or drywall behind it and mount the outlet on one of the sides then again use the TS to cover the hole.

I think the resolution you require may limit you on VGA over USB but if 640*480 or 800*600 are workable it might be something to consider.

 

[tmbrown97]

rapidrun (www.rapidrun.com) makes a vga cable with detachable head - I think it's a little more expensive, but you wouldn't need power or a really large hole.

TigerDirect has a decent selection - looks like it'd cost you about $80 for a 50 footer... and it fits through a 3/4" hole. USB and Serial should work fine with non-powered baluns to get over Cat5.

 

[Scrambled]

E he is what I did.

I used a cable like this one from cablestogo.com This is not the one I have but you will get the idea. http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%...2&sku=50717

For the USB I used both 16 foot regular extenders and 16 foot active extenders. If you connect 2 of the regular 16 ft USB together they won't work, if you connect 2 active USB extenders together they don't work, BUT if you alternate 1 regular USB then 1 active usb then you can go atleast 100 feet. That is how far I went. Everything works great.

Just an idea


Steve

 

[drozwood90]

I'm going through this now, to get my HTPC setup.

I have a touchscreen that I want to have at the couch, which should show the same thing that the MAIN TV screen is showing.

I haven't done this yet...

BUT for VGA:
http://www.elephantstaircase.com/wiki/inde...oRJ45conversion

However, I'm going to use something like these:
http://www.cablewholesale.com/specs/db25-t.../31d3-37200.htm

except with a male DB15...well a proper DB15 for VGA (according to that site it is called a HD15). $2-$3 for each end...and it'll plug directly into CAT5. Just keep the frequency down and everything should be fine (for your distance, if 1024x768 doesn't look good, try 800x600 (as suggested by Collin). A trick I use...I made all the screens attached be LCDs. This allows me to keep the refreshrate over the cable at 60Hz. The lower the frequency, the lower the amount of data (screen res.) the better it will look.

My backround for stating what I did...I know it flies in the face of the balun people...as well as IEEE...BUT:
I've had (as a test) about 30' of RCA cable. Hooked up composite output from a VCR, into another VCR, then into a TV (COAX). I was TRYING to make the signal look bad. OOOOH boy did it! Then I made something similar to the VGA to RJ45, except I had 1 stereo AUDIO jack, and three RCA jacks. I tried to use those for STEREO audio and component over cat5 (not E) (3.5mm audio jack for audio, and all three RCA jacks had component inputs hooked into it). I also tried composite with stereo audio over RCA with a composite over the RCA jacks. I had NO issues with either, using a 50' then a 100' (it might have been about 110') pieces of cat 5 (NOT E). I did not notice any signal issues. All I did was replace the 30' RCA cable between the two VCRs.

For USB:
I have something like this:
<<LINK REMOVED as I found the product...linked below>>

EDIT:
found the link:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=10...c=SCH&srm=0
--$16 for extenders AND 115' cable

Except mine cost about the same (edit: apparently it is $10 less) and came as a KIT with 100' piece of USB cable. I have been successful at getting the USB Microsoft mouse to work 100%. I'll see if I can dig up the link for the unit I bought. It's tough to find at www.geeks.com, but once you have the link, it'll show up.

I bought two. BOTH for my thumbprint scanners. With the layout of my new house, I only need one extender. The second thumbprint reader seems to work fine without the extender, just my longer custom cable.

My touchscreen was acting funny at 100', so I made a shorter cable (as I really only need the cable to stretch 20', so with dipping into the basement and coming back up...say 30'). This seemed to correct the problem as NOW I don't have issues.

 

[beelzerob]

Ya, I probably should have tried the VGA over Cat5 thing before buying the 50 footer. oh well.

 

[electron]

Thanks for all the responses, there is a lot of good information in this thread!

I think I will try roussell's suggestion (but will wait for him to test it first), as it seems to be the cheapest and most efficient solution for VGA so far. Looks like USB and serial won't be an issue judging by the many good suggestions.

Only thing left to figure out now is power, as I want to keep things code compliant (or as close as possible, just for safety reasons).

 

[felixrosbergen]

Hi Gents,

I'm a bit confused...USB 2.0 specification state a maximum cable lenght of about 5m due to signalling time...

Do the baluns essentially resolve this?

USB seems to use twisted pair cabling to start with, for longer distances do you still need baluns and cat5? It appears so..i guess the baluns just inject more power into the line or something to cover the greater distances...

 

[sic0048]

The use of baluns certainly can increase the distance betweeen devices. I'm not sure how they actually work, but I know they do.

I haven't tried Scrambled's suggestion (post #10), but that may be another option too.