Encore FireFighter Smoke Alarm Detector

[fabriziojoe]

I just received an email from Encore Controls mentioning the "FireFighter" smoke alarm detector.
 
http://encorecontrols.com/products.php
 
This is a wireless sensor that integrates into certain alarm panels which senses line voltage smoke detectors when they trip-very interesting.
 
Has anyone used this product or see any reason not to?
 
Thanks!

 

[Del91574]

To be punny, they're blowing smoke about their listing: ETL is not UL or NFPA. All it means is the unit has been tested and meets the standard, which doesn't necessarily mean that it's a UL listed FACP accessory or component. Why do you think their writing everywhere states UL listed smoke detectors/system and not their component?
 
http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/scopes.asp?fn=0985.html
 
The unit is not NFPA compliant or UL listed. Read 1.5 of the standard. The installed HV units may be compliant, and the combination system with the RF unit may be compliant, but the two interfaced do not make a compliant system. Maybe for a DIY it'd fly, but for anyone in the industry without a good lawyer and ironclad contract, caveat emptor.
 
The unit only listens for the sound from a detector at a certain level in order to generate an alarm at the host FACP. The unit may be supervised, but the smoke detectors that it's going to be monitoring are not. How can the unit detect a failure or system issue from what it's supposed to be listening to? What about the low battery chirps the HV units inevitably give off? Does the host system report those? Are the smoke alarms (check the listing and installed products) listed for use as smoke detectors?
 
IMHO, way too many grey areas and items to be concerned about to install as a professionally offered product. DIY, sure, but then what standard is the HO/installer going to be held to?

 

[ano]

So I can add one of these to my panel to be triggered by the smake alarm. I can place a second one near the siren of my panel to trigger my fire sprinklers. Then use a water sensor under the sprinkler to connect to a dialer to call the fire department.

 

[Del91574]

Oh boy. The AHJ would have a field day with Ano's install.
 
Sprinkler system is thermal and not activated electronically, unless it is a dry or preaction. A flood detector would not be a suitable device (or listed) for fire alarm service. The systems, as separately installed would be compliant, however once you start linking them for monitoring and reporting is where the issues lie. I'd hopefully assume the unit needs to see a sample of a temp-3 sounder before sending it's signal to the host panel.
 
The inherent issue is the 120VAC smoke alarms (NOT detectors, very specific difference) are a compliant system for code. The RF device and link to a listed control panel would technically be compliant, assuming the AHJ allows the ETL listing on the device and not UL/FM to apply specifically to the unit as connected to the FACP and the communication unit does meet the UL listing requirements in the standard. The inherent issue is when you link 2 separately listed systems in a manner that has not been specifically addressed in NFPA or the IRC, which most state statutes are dervied from.

How about this: Where's the supervision portion performed on the host system? Where's the interconnection supervision? Where's the annunciation of trouble? What happens should the unit not "hear" the alarm? Is one to assume that the boilerplate "test system weekly" requirement is going to apply in this case and device?

 

[JNA]

Resurrecting this old thread to ask if anyone has had practical experience with the Encore Firefighter FF345 in the intervening 3 years?
 
Mostly interested in bad/negative issues if any? Also whether there are any other solutions that people would recommend that can leverage an existing network of 120V/9V battery house smoke detectors into an alarm panel?
 
I will not rely only on the FF345. I will have something like a System Sensor 2WT-B photoelectric smoke detector tied into the alarm panel using existing wires as my main detector, but thought there might be value in leveraging the existing Kidde Firex I4618 wired network of ionizing smoke detectors since these are spread around the house, whereas I only have existing wiring for one alarm panel based smoke. I don't feel the need/threat is great enough in a normal relatively open plan house to go to the expense or the additional complexity in configuration and running wires (or installing wireless smokes) for another 6 alarm panel smokes around the house to parallel the Kidde smokes network. So in a nutshell there seems to be some relatively low cost upside but what are the known downsides?
 
Thanks
John

 

[Del91574]

Assuming you don't have a branch circuit load tied into your existing HV fire alarm, you would be able to remove them from the 120VAC and replace them with system smoke detectors provided they meet the same criteria (battery backup, tandem ring) and still be compliant per code and highly unlikely the AHJ would have an issue. I would go that route prior to leveraging an add on that isn't necessarily listed for the purpose and detectors not intended on being connected to a FACP.

 

[JNA]

Thanks for the quick response and suggestion. I don't know where in the house the alarm circuit picks up the 120V. Since there is no sign of a dedicated service in the main panel or anywhere else I assume it must be connected to a standard ring main for lights and/or power sockets, meaning I cannot isolate the circuit in order to use the wiring for alarm panel wiring.
 
However, on reflection and prompted by your comment maybe even if the FF345 is reliable perhaps the Kidde system may not be at some future point based on some user comments  so perhaps I should pass on this for now at least.