GE 3-way wiring help

[mrnohr]

I am pretty new the the HA world, and I am trying to install GE 3-way Zwave switches I bought. I installed a couple stand-alone zwave switches, which work great, but I am overwhelmed when I look at the 3-way setup.  I was hoping somebody could take a look at what I have and point me in the right direction.
 
I have the GE 45614 3-way kit. The manual is available online if interested (search for "ge 45614 manual").  The kit comes with a master and auxiliary switch. The master has screws for line, load, traveler, neutral, and ground. The auxiliary switch has just traveler, neutral, and ground.  If I understand it correctly, the master just controls the light and the auxiliary sends a signal to the master when it is used.
 
When I looked at my existing switches, I had a hard time understanding how it was wired.  I'll try to explain what I see:
 
Top of the stairs:
3-wire and 4-wire coming in. The black from the 3-wire connects to the red of the 4-wire. The white from the 3-wire is connected to the bottom of the switch. And the white and black from the 4-wire are connected to the top of the switch.  Ground wires are connected as well
 
Bottom of the stairs:
4-wire is connected to the switch (red to bottom, black and white to top, ground to ground).
 
Any ideas?  I did call an electrician who seemed to think it would be a really easy job, but still wanted to charge me a bunch of money.

 

[ChrisCicc]

You need to disconnect the existing switches, you're not going to wire the new ones the same way they have done. So once you disconnect them, cap the lines and install the new switches as described in this video, it shows you how to do exactly what you're asking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xzFAbTQHhcY#!

 

[rsw686]

Have you looked at the wires in the box for the light fixture? From the way you describe it power could be going to the light first or the light could be in the middle of the two switches.

 

[oberkc]

Have you looked at the wires in the box for the light fixture? From the way you describe it power could be going to the light first or the light could be in the middle of the two switches.

 
I would state this more positively.  Power IS going to the fixture.  I do not believe there is a light between the switches.
 
MONRHR,
 
I believe the wiring you have is known as a switch loop, where power is introduced initially at the fixture.  One can find a good diagram for this here:
 
http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-Projects/Electrical/Switch/how-to-wire-a-threeway-switch/Step-By-Step
 
Unfortunately, there is no neutral at either of your switch boxes.  White is NOT a neutral in this case (and should have been marked somehow, such as with a black marker or tape.)  If these switch boxes have more than one switch, there may be neutrals with the other circuits.
 
As I understand from the manual, each switch requires access to a neutral, the master (45609) requires unswitched hot and would power the fixture.  I don't believe you are going to be able to make this work with your existing wiring.  IF you had an additional conductor between the fixture and switch, you COULD.  If there is another switch or device in your switch box, you MAY be able to make this work.
 
By the way, your wires (cables) are more commonly known as 2- and 3-conductor.  Bare ground is not counted.

 

[rsw686]

I would state this more positively.  Power IS going to the fixture.  I do not believe there is a light between the switches.
 
MONRHR,
 
I believe the wiring you have is known as a switch loop, where power is introduced initially at the fixture.  One can find a good diagram for this here:

 
With the 2 wire going to the first switch and 3 wire between the switches the light could be in the middle. Take a look at option 3 on the link below.
 
http://www.homeimprovementweb.com/information/how-to/three-way-switch.htm

 

[oberkc]

With the 2 wire going to the first switch and 3 wire between the switches the light could be in the middle.

 
Except, based on his description:
 
"The black from the 3-wire connects to the red of the 4-wire. The white from the 3-wire is connected to the bottom of the switch. And the white and black from the 4-wire are connected to the top of the switch"
 
This is inconsistent with option 3.  No...in my opinion, this is power to the fixture.  No fixture between switches.

 

[mrnohr]

Thanks everyone for your help. I ended up hiring an electrician, which I feel guilty about but I'm glad it got done.
 
In case someone runs into the same situation, What ended up happening is that he connected the switch at the bottom of the stairs to a different circuit and then rewired the light fixture.