Good home network data and backup solution

[Steve]

So, my main desktop pc decided to have a heart attack and stroke at the same time. Not sure which way it happened but a drive failed and power supply (psu) died a horrible death. My working theory is the drive died/shorted and took the psu with it. In any case I sort of got REALLY lucky because it was the O/S drive that failed and not my data drive. The sad fact is that I really do know better and tell people all the time about backups but I don't take my own advice. I have a new psu in there and I'm going to try to save the drive with a new controller board. So, I am taking this as a warning sign and I want to setup a robust new system like I should have had all along.

So, here are my current components:

Main desktop workhorse pc: Asus mobo with C2D and 4 (well 3 usable) GB RAM
Kids/wife's pc: Old 1Ghz Compaq pc
HA Server: Dell P4 3.2Ghz with 2GB RAM, this is my SageTV server and CQC server

This is my opportunity to redo thing the right way. My priorities are:

1. Robust / reliable - I don't want to lose data!!!
2. Fairly power efficient - gotta get electric bill under control
3. Easy to setup and maintain. While I do have the skills to do low level stuff, I'm old and grumpy and want it pretty simple
4. Affordable - I'd sure like to keep it reasonable but I realized you can't put a price on your data. My life is on that 1 drive.

So I've been doing alot of reading and researching and as is typical, reviews are all over the place. I have been looking seriously at Drobo, ReadyNAS, WHS (either build my own or prebuilt like HP MediaSmart server). I've been looking at options like keeping pc's as is and using Drobo or WHS simply as a backup, pc's with just O/S and Drobo or ReadyNAS as primary storage, WHS with Drobo as either backup or primary storage, etc, etc. and I've got a headache! I've thought about taking my current desktop and making it a WHS SageTV server to run Sage plus do duty a a WHS server for backups (for Sage I have all extenders, but I do run Comskip). If I do that I would probably either keep CQC on there or more likely put it on a dedicated fit2pc or similar low power device using the Quatech thingies I got. And then I would build a new main desktop pc.

So I'm not sure which components to go with or what configuration would be best and most efficient. WHS has some great and some bad reviews, same with Drobo, especially Droboshare. The better ReadyNAS is alot more $. Do I try to do it all really really simple like WHS or should I do slightly lower level and use stuff like Genie for backups and Delta file sync stuff, etc?

I do know I don't want to go Linux or totally do a bunch of low level setup and maintenance.

So, what do y'all do? If you could build your 'dream' system, how would you do it, keeping in mind the 4 priorities above. While price is last, its still somewhat important, but reliability is most important.

 

[WayneW]

The first thing I would do is install some replication/sync software (since I assume you have at least one machine that runs 24/7 and has some spare disk space). Use that to push/pull copies of your important stuff onto multiple machines. That gives you instant access to your files on a second machine if one is unavailable (or worse).
I have used this stuff for years as ONE of my backup methods http://www.karenware.com/powertools/ptreplicator.asp
Shareware/freeware that you can use today to start CYA.

 

[Ira]

For remote (online) backup, I currently use Quicken Online Backup (really just "Connected Corp." online backup under the covers). However, I'm in the process of switching to the IDrive.com "family pack" plan. Much better package options, and they handle mapped/network drives. I have five PC's for various uses, and all of them will be using IDrive sometime soon.

I keep all critical and shared data on a Synlogy DS207+ NAS BYOD box that has a couple of terabyte drives in a mirrored configuration to yield one terabyte. They support larger drives but I don't need it. Synlogy usually gets very high marks for performance and software functionality. It has a built in web server, SMTP mail server, photo sharing application, IP video camera server, and some other stuff I don't remember. Not the cheapest solution. Mine has been 100% problem free for over a year. My wired LAN is all gigabit, and my wireless segments are now all wireless N. I recently replaced my old Linksys wireless G router (only used as an access point) with a Netgear WNDR3700 dual band wireless N gigabit router (but only used as an access point) and my old Linksys 100-base-T router with a Netgear FVS336G dual WAN gigabit SSL VPN firewall/router (I wanted the LAN SSL function for easy remote access). I have a LAN switch in almost every room, and they've all been upgraded to gigabit Netgear switches. With everything gigabit and/or wireless-N, mapped drives are really fast.

I also have a couple of large capacity external drives, and every six months or so, I use Acronis TrueImage to take a backup of each PC to one of the external drives. I plan on adding an external drive to the DS207+ soon to use for backing up the DS207+ (in addition to onine backups via IDrive). For my two laptops, every so often I will use Acronis TrueImage to clone the hard drives to spare hard drives, then either put them away for safe keeping or swap them in and put the original in storage. Hard drives are so cheap that it's cheap enough to rotate them every few months. When I've had a drive failure, the worst I have to do is install the last cloned copy drive, restore any data (always kept on separate logical partitions from my system and program partitions even though they are all on the same hard drive) that I may have had on the local drive, and reinstall any programs that may not be on the drive since it is a few months "behind". I lose drives so seldom that it's not a very painful process.

Ira

 

[fcwilt]

I have a pair of the ReadyNAS devices. I use Genie for backups but I also use AllSync to maintain copies of certain directories that I want quick access to (so I don't have to use Genie to do a restore which takes longer and requires more effort).

 

[ewelin]

WHS all the way. I have decent custom built WHS PC running in my house which manages backup for my office PC, my 2nd office pc, wifes laptop and our HTPC in the living room. My WHS is also running SageTV and HCA and it's great!!! The backup process is painless, you set up the connector software on each pc and then they just get backed up automatically. It'll even wake the pc up for a backup. The WHS drive pool is really well done, if you ever need more disk space, you just put it another drive and add it to the pool. That's it.... On top of that you've the WHS has it's own website which you can view/edit/add/delete all of the files stored on you drive pool, as well as do other things like RDP into any PC that's on.

The best part about WHS is if there is ever a PC failure, you simply put in the restore CD and it'll restore your PC to the way it was on the last backup. I've done this a couple times when tinkering with my HTPC... it's great knowing there is a simple restore process. You could also restore it to any of the backup that you decide to keep or that are within your retention settings.

I definitely think WHS is worth the investment if you don't want to tinker with things too much. I'll say the WAF for it wasn't very high at first, but just last week our internet connection was down for about an hour and my wife called asking what happened to the home server... she was at work and wanted to grab a music CD from it to listen to.

 

[killervette]

i second the vote for WHS. I have a 10TB WHS at home. I have EVERYTHING on it. lol. I also use keepvault online backup for the more important files. WHS uploads my files to them in the background.

 

[troymt]

WHS as well.

The ability to have nightly images made of the client PC's is wonderful.

With the connector installed on each machine you get image backups and the WHS will act as a RDC Proxy.

I have a NAS that backups the WHS box and have Carbonite installed on the WHS just for one more layer (Offsite).

There are certainly other ways to accomplish what you are doing but WHS fits your requested needs pretty dang close.

 

[sic0048]

I'm running SageTV and my main CQC server on a WHS machine. Very nice combo as I have 1 machine that runs 24/7 and everything else gets put to sleep.

 

[Sacedog]

I think if you already have a machine that runs 24x7, replacing it with a WHS would be a good way to go, but I do not vote for getting another machine just for back ups. In addition, I feel that any backups that you keep at your house, are still prone to loss in the event of a fire, flood, or theft.

Personally, I use a fairly low-tech way to back up all of my data. I have an external hard drive, and a file replication program (Super Flexible File Synchronizer...funny name, great program). Usually every couple of weeks, I back up all of my data, plus a few programs such as CQC, to the external hard drive. I then take the hard drive, and store it at work. This way, if the house burns down, or if I get robbed, I still have all of my data safe and secure. I keep the drive at work in a locked cabinet, and would suggest that you do the same, or use encryption software to protect the drive's contents.

My way take a LITTLE extra work, and is not automated, but it protects me from all possible scenarios of data loss. The only thing that is not protected are the files that have been added or changed since my last backup.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the replies and ideas so far. A few more questions:

1. With WHS can you insert and remove different size drives from the 'pool' like you can with say the Drobo?
2. How well do you trust WHS for your backups? Some pundits say WHS can't be trusted and the way MS changed their file system for WHS, and even broke it for a while makes it unreliable? Have you ever seen data corruption or any issues with it?
3. With WHS, what do you do with independent pc's? Do you run 2 drives (o/s and data) in each pc, then do a nightly backup of the data?
4. Does anyone just use a single O/S drive in a pc and store all data directly on WHS or NAS, or do you still store data independently in each local machine and then just back it up centrally?
5. For those that use WHS and NAS, do you trust WHS and then simply back that up to NAS, or would you just run WHS and NAS in parallel and backup data to both? If you use NAS to backup WHS, is that a fairly straightforward process?
6. For those with Sage on WHS, it sounds like Sage for WHS is a separate product. Did you just start with Sage for WHS or do you know if SageTV will let you 'convert' the standard Sage license to WHS? I really don't want to have to buy another license for Sage when I already have one.
7. Is anyone concerned with privacy, etc for offsite backups. Between that paranoia and my only 400k upload bandwidth I am thinking maybe a better approach would be a fire rated safe bolted in the house to store a dvd, tape or drives may be a better plan?

Thanks again for your ideas and opinions.

 

[ewelin]

1. With WHS can you insert and remove different size drives from the 'pool' like you can with say the Drobo?

Any size or style... you can have sata, pata, usb... pretty much anything. I have 5 different disks in my whs box ranging from .5tb to 1.5tb.

2. How well do you trust WHS for your backups? Some pundits say WHS can't be trusted and the way MS changed their file system for WHS, and even broke it for a while makes it unreliable? Have you ever seen data corruption or any issues with it?

I trust it, there was an issue with data corruption on duplicated files... i forget the exact details, but I know it's been resolve since power pack 1.

3. With WHS, what do you do with independent pc's? Do you run 2 drives (o/s and data) in each pc, then do a nightly backup of the data?
4. Does anyone just use a single O/S drive in a pc and store all data directly on WHS or NAS, or do you still store data independently in each local machine and then just back it up centrally?

I personally store everything on my WHS shares. The vital shares are setup with duplication and WHS manages that automatically. I try and keep the data on each PC down to a minimum.

6. For those with Sage on WHS, it sounds like Sage for WHS is a separate product. Did you just start with Sage for WHS or do you know if SageTV will let you 'convert' the standard Sage license to WHS? I really don't want to have to buy another license for Sage when I already have one.

There is a special install package for sagetv on WHS.... it takes the same license and it's not hard to convert. I actually went through the process a few weeks ago and it was quite painless. I actually prefer the setup this way now and it's helped improve the WAF as the HTPC in the living room runs faster now that it's only used for viewing content instead of doing all of the recordings etc... If you do go this route, there is one suggestion, that the drive pool is formatted with 64k blocks... there is a tutorial on the sagetv forums on how to do this and I can grab the link for ya if you'd like.

5. For those that use WHS and NAS, do you trust WHS and then simply back that up to NAS, or would you just run WHS and NAS in parallel and backup data to both? If you use NAS to backup WHS, is that a fairly straightforward process?
7. Is anyone concerned with privacy, etc for offsite backups. Between that paranoia and my only 400k upload bandwidth I am thinking maybe a better approach would be a fire rated safe bolted in the house to store a dvd, tape or drives may be a better plan?

If you have a good friend who has a server running you could both setup an FTP server and do offsite backups that way. I do this with all critical information on my server using syncbackse and encrypting the backups and set it up to run automatically every 3 nights. I used to store a DVD, then a USB hard drive in the fire safe, but I would forget to make the backups consistently, so I went with the FTP option.

 

[sic0048]

6. For those with Sage on WHS, it sounds like Sage for WHS is a separate product. Did you just start with Sage for WHS or do you know if SageTV will let you 'convert' the standard Sage license to WHS? I really don't want to have to buy another license for Sage when I already have one.

The license is the same. I just went from a P4 XP Pro machine running SageTV to a new quad4 WHS machine last weekend and installed SageTV for WHS by simply inputting the same license # from the original installation.

7. Is anyone concerned with privacy, etc for offsite backups. Between that paranoia and my only 400k upload bandwidth I am thinking maybe a better approach would be a fire rated safe bolted in the house to store a dvd, tape or drives may be a better plan?

How about a fire proof hard drive?

 

[pete_c]

For my main PC I put two 1TB drives in it in a Raid1 array.
I am in the process of building a new HA server which will have the same with smaller drives.
I also backup the house computers/laptops to a couple of NAS boxes (now FreeNAs and Windows2003 embedded NAS).
Typically the PC/laptop builds have two partitions. One is an application drive and the other is a data drive. The data is kept in one directory subdivided into various subdirectories. The data is more important to me than the applications. With one directory I am able to replicate the data out easier. My music, pictures and video are kept on source drives (individual Windows Vista MCE and Media player with HD) and replicated out to a NAS drive.

 

[drozwood90]

i second the vote for WHS. I have a 10TB WHS at home. I have EVERYTHING on it. lol. I also use keepvault online backup for the more important files. WHS uploads my files to them in the background.

What hardware are you using to get the 10TB? SATA port replicators?

ESATA??

--Dan