How far can Z-wave Mesh network run?

B

BrownChiLD

Member
Hi Guys
 
im a fan of z-wave and been tinkering w/ it for a while.
 
but now I have an urgent project requirement and was thinking about deploying a z-wave (hopefully) security system mainly for door contacts and motion.

Need to install it on a 30 storey building at every FIRE EXITS (60 total)

My problem is, one z-wave controller is located at the basement (security) .. will wireless "meshing" all the way up to 30th floor be any issue?
 
and would you suggest a better way of going about this?
 
Regards to all
 
TJ
 
Theoretically, sure, it should work. Having said that, I'd guess there will be a fairly significant delay.
 
I certainly can't say that I've tried anything like it...
 
There is a very small chance z-wave sensors will work in such application, but most likely not. Why not install a certified wireless security system with supervised repeaters, like GE?
 
My problem is, one z-wave controller is located at the basement (security) .. will wireless "meshing" all the way up to 30th floor be any issue?
 
and would you suggest a better way of going about this?
Click to expand...
 
There is a very small chance z-wave sensors will work in such application, but most likely not. Why not install a certified wireless security system with supervised repeaters, like GE?
Click to expand...
 
+1
 
Going to be blunt here....
 
Yup first of all not to consider using Z-Wave for this sort of thing. 
 
Curious why even an attempt to try? 
 
Really a waste of time, money (if any was spent yet) and resources to even bring this up as a consideration.
 
Antennas are always better with height. The signals are more likely to have line-of-site and they can bounce off other objects.
 
30 stories? I wouldn't try it.  Perhaps about 10 host transmitters hardwired or "Ethernetted" together.
 
 
These system are typically hardwired and battery backed-up. I doubt that would happen with so many remote units. At least Insteon has communication checkbacks and retries. This may be incorrect but I understand Z-Wave doesn't.
 
I honestly didn't read through the entirety of the OP... I don't mind Zwave as an automation piece, and still agree with my previous - as long as each device can communicate with the next (i.e. mesh). However, I wouldn't rely on Zwave as a security technology.
 
If you are not committed to Z-Wave, you might try Zigbee instead. That IS designed for large installation. The Aria hotel in Las Vegas has over 70,000 zigbee devices, and if that works, 60 shouldn't be a problem.  Unless you have lots to spend on trial-and-error, I wouldn't use Z-Wave for a commercial building unless you can find other examples that it works in these conditions.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=936ycf2maMg
 
Very impressive demonstration of Zigbee utilization!
 
I was trying to embed a you tube video here yesterday and for whatever reason I couldn't and I did just a couple of weeks back.
 
ano said:
If you are not committed to Z-Wave, you might try Zigbee instead. That IS designed for large installation. The Aria hotel in Las Vegas has over 70,000 zigbee devices, and if that works, 60 shouldn't be a problem.  Unless you have lots to spend on trial-and-error, I wouldn't use Z-Wave for a commercial building unless you can find other examples that it works in these conditions.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=936ycf2maMg
Click to expand...
Yes but those are 6000+ separate individual networks. They don't rely on the mesh to carry messages from one side of the hotel to the other.
 
Don't do it....you're asking for problems. There's already proven ways to do this but some way, shape or form, you're probably going to be looking at getting data or signals back to the host device.
Zwave is fine for a generic automation platform, but security it ain't.
 
Have you considered something like Lynx? Is there a real security system involved? Is the purpose to only monitor the state of the fire doors?
 
In Insteon there is a limit to the number of hops the mesh network can make before bogging down on certain data storms.
 
This would be a bottleneck in Zwave also, I would assume, and limit your overall distances.
 
Hello guys
 
Thanks very much for the replies, all of them were helpful , thanks!
 
To breeze through and reply to significant points:
 
1) reason i thought of going Zwave is my familiarity of it, and availability of devices in my region.. and also since I'm a programmer, i thought i could write a proprietary software for them that i can maintain/make money off in the long run (lelz)
 
2) I also, i guess, was thinking if meshing is a good way to expand network at ridiculous distances -- i guess not

3) I just need the system to monitor the FIRE EXIT doors, and perhaps attach z-wave smoke detectors later if client wishes. but at the moment the requirement is really basic. just for the exit doors.

4) I know of a few Solutions that are built for large scale like this but so far what i've found are things that would need to be hardwired all the way to the basement. The construction already included a network infra using cat6 cables and I wanted to capitalize on that

5) i can actually just wire the typical, cheapo, analog door sensors, all the way to a control box.. but it doesn't fit all the requirements (per door control, monitoring of door activities if it's open or close at any given time == analog sensors are one way and basically just triggers during activity (door open) and no info can be pulled on demand.. AFAIK.
 
BrownChiLD said:
5) i can actually just wire the typical, cheapo, analog door sensors, all the way to a control box.. but it doesn't fit all the requirements (per door control, monitoring of door activities if it's open or close at any given time == analog sensors are one way and basically just triggers during activity (door open) and no info can be pulled on demand.. AFAIK.
Click to expand...
 
Huh? If you can wire "typical" door sensors, you can have per-door monitoring, by running one cable run to each door.
 
Several alarm mfg's have addressable devices that could all be on one pair for burg and another for fire. Each point has a unique address. To me that is the way to go for this project.
 
(shakes head)

You don't need to reinvent the wheel. You're asking for trouble now and also by homebrewing a solution that is going to be marginal or sub-performing at best. Programmer, experience or not. Sorry if it sounds blunt or crass.
 
http://www.lynxguide.com/index.shtml
 
Add innovonics receivers as needed for devices in field, tie to inputs and ship the signals over the IP network you say you have. Done. You don't need to know if the doors are in a secure state at any given time provided you drive an alarm event when they get open. You only need to know two states, closed and open. Why would you need to know anything besides that, provided you use a supervised input state? Easy enough to drive output to whatever you choose to from that point.
 
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