My planning parameters for new home HA

HardWay

New Member
I'm a few weeks away from starting LV wiring for my new home. I've been researching various options for products. I'd appreciate it greatly if anyone here has travelled my same road and would care to comment.

I'll be a DIY'er and in my case it seems that using a good central system with "lots-o-features" and proven interface partners would be better (and cheaper) than tying together best of breed apps for individual functions.

I'm liking the general feature set advertised for the HAI OmniPro, and UPB switches. It would give me lighting control for room scenes and whole-house functions by using UPB switches. It would also provide a security system that would communicate with door/window contacts, motion sensors, and glass-break detectors. I could also control draperies in my home theater using hardwired Hunter Douglas motorized drapes/blinds controlled by UPB dimmers set to non-dimmer mode. I could also use HAI's motorized drapery partners, but the integration only seems to be in switch compatibility (touch panels) - and UPB offers this anyway.

I plan for distributed audio and video, and HAI claims integration with a few of these vendors. I'm not sure what this integration consists of, other than perhaps interrupting the sound/picture for the phone or doorbell, and perhaps touch panel control. Anybody care to comment on what else?

In my case I have two buildings - I like the idea of a "scene switch" that could work in this manner: From the out-building I can press the button that I would name "guest arrival". Pressing that button would open a driveway gate (by addressing another UPB switch that opens the gate), 10 seconds later it would open a garage door, and 25 seconds later it would activate a door strike allowing the guest entry from the garage to the house. I don't know all the details of how this might work, but one can infer from the HAI literature that it is possible - although I'm not clear on the timing aspect. Is anyone here doing something like this?

I will have 6 thermostats among the two buildings. The HAI thermostats communicate with the OmniPro board. Using a house-control switch I should be able to push an "I'm away" button and have all thermostats move to a preset energy-saving temperature. Save $$$.

For other devices that have on-off switches I should be able to use UPB switches and control them in groups. With proper planning and switch placement I should be able to control things like fireplaces, the spa motor, fountains, etc.

I might even add a few zip boxes in strategic places, have the electrician run three wires to them, and cap them off. They would be available for additional scene switches for things I do not yet forsee.

I know "the devil's in the details" but from research this seems like the way to go for me. Unfortunately my opinion is based solely on internet research with no real-world experience. Am I off-base here?

TIA, HardWay.
 
I'm a few weeks away from starting LV wiring for my new home. I've been researching various options for products. I'd appreciate it greatly if anyone here has travelled my same road and would care to comment.

I'll be a DIY'er and in my case it seems that using a good central system with "lots-o-features" and proven interface partners would be better (and cheaper) than tying together best of breed apps for individual functions.

I'm liking the general feature set advertised for the HAI OmniPro, and UPB switches. It would give me lighting control for room scenes and whole-house functions by using UPB switches. It would also provide a security system that would communicate with door/window contacts, motion sensors, and glass-break detectors. I could also control draperies in my home theater using hardwired Hunter Douglas motorized drapes/blinds controlled by UPB dimmers set to non-dimmer mode. I could also use HAI's motorized drapery partners, but the integration only seems to be in switch compatibility (touch panels) - and UPB offers this anyway.

I plan for distributed audio and video, and HAI claims integration with a few of these vendors. I'm not sure what this integration consists of, other than perhaps interrupting the sound/picture for the phone or doorbell, and perhaps touch panel control. Anybody care to comment on what else?

In my case I have two buildings - I like the idea of a "scene switch" that could work in this manner: From the out-building I can press the button that I would name "guest arrival". Pressing that button would open a driveway gate (by addressing another UPB switch that opens the gate), 10 seconds later it would open a garage door, and 25 seconds later it would activate a door strike allowing the guest entry from the garage to the house. I don't know all the details of how this might work, but one can infer from the HAI literature that it is possible - although I'm not clear on the timing aspect. Is anyone here doing something like this?

I will have 6 thermostats among the two buildings. The HAI thermostats communicate with the OmniPro board. Using a house-control switch I should be able to push an "I'm away" button and have all thermostats move to a preset energy-saving temperature. Save $$$.

For other devices that have on-off switches I should be able to use UPB switches and control them in groups. With proper planning and switch placement I should be able to control things like fireplaces, the spa motor, fountains, etc.

I might even add a few zip boxes in strategic places, have the electrician run three wires to them, and cap them off. They would be available for additional scene switches for things I do not yet forsee.

I know "the devil's in the details" but from research this seems like the way to go for me. Unfortunately my opinion is based solely on internet research with no real-world experience. Am I off-base here?

TIA, HardWay.

If you are looking for a single system with the largest number of built-in features then HAI is probably your best bet. They have added a lot of new stuff lately (check out the new access control equipment) and seem to be introducing new products faster than most other folks in the industry. They also recently made some changes to their communications protocol to make their system integrate better with 3rd party products. Down the line you may want to add a PC running CQC or Homeseer to get some added functionality that is not supported by the OmniPro II directly (weather station, voice recognition, etc.) But to start out you can do a lot with UPB switches and an HAI OmniPro II.

The primary integration for music with the HAI is the ability to control a music system from their touch screens. They integrate with several brands and you can check their site for details. Some details are also summarized at the Home Automation Comparison Spreadsheet. I would suggest though that you take a step back and really think about your music system a bit before digging into the details of HA integration.

You need to think about how you want the system to work strictly from a music system perspective. Do you just want a central stereo with the sound distributed through the house with volume controls in each area? Or do you want extensive control from each location with the ability to listen to different things in different places at the same time? Do you want just basic preset selection type controls or do you want a display in each location to show you what is playing and let you make detailed music selections? What are your main sources going to be? Internet Radio, Hard Drive Music Archive, Satellite Radio, Reel-to-Reel Tape?

Try to get an idea of what you really want for music and don't limit your choices to what is in the Automation Controller brochure. Get familiar with NuVo and Russound, but also understand what is offered by Sonos and Olive and Zon. I think you are on the right track and you have certainly come to the right place to get a variety of opinions!
 
HAI is a good product. Just make sure you get it from a place that will support you. HAI does not typically support the diy'er very well, so it is critical to choose a place that has great support and alot of knowledge of the product. I don't hesitate in recommending Automated Outlet in that regard. Also, I always like to recommend at least looking into hardwire lighting in all threads like this where you have the capability to do so during construction. As much as I like UPB, it is still PLC and subject to possible issues. Only hardwire will always work 100% (control wise - always potential of hardware failure with any technology). You have your choice of something traditionally wired (lights are wired per plans) with cat5 for control - something like ALC/OnQ, or you have the more typical centralized lighting systems like Centralite where there is no HV going to the switches. All the HV is homerun to the panel and Cat5 only to the switches. Both have their pros/cons and either will give you the control reliability than nothing else can. With that being said, certainly there are many people using UPB, Insteon, ZWave, etc and claim 100% reliability, but they are not 100% immune to potential problems like hardwire.
 
Thanks for the input, its very helpful. Part of my decision is that I'm a hands-on type - I like that I should be able to tweak the UPB stuff myself when I feel the need. There is also the fear that with a hardwired solution I would have the likely loads pre-wired with LV - then when I start using the system I'll kick myself because it will be too late to make wiring changes to add other loads, or perhaps to take advantage of a new developments. I have a complex home geography both indoors and outdoors, so there is a comfort factor for me that as long as each switch and receptacle gets 3 wires, I'll have a lot of future flexibility - and I can figure out the details later. Lastly, a DIY UPB system looks like it will be about 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of some hardwired options I've been quoted.

On the downside, UPB solutions seem to offer "switch clutter". Having a dimmer for each load in a room, then another room switch where scene lighting is desired, and also a house switch at main enter/exit points can put a lot of switch plates on a wall. (And then there's relay switches - haven't figured those out yet) It seems the look and feel of UPB will not be as elegant as hardwired optons. Also, controlling LV lighting looks iffy. One can control the receptacle the transformer plugs into, but I'm not sure the LV lights can be "always on" when power goes to the transformer, and there doesn't seem to be any way to dim LV lights with UPB scene lighting.

However, if I can believe the HAI marketing literature and I buy their controller - I like that I should be able to press an "I'm away" house switch when leaving - then all desired loads will be automatically turned off (including table and floor lamps if I wish), the a/c thermostats can automatically change to pre-set energy-saving temps (I think), and pre-determined lights will cycle on and off based on time of day to make the home look lived in. Thats a very appealing feature for me - especially coming from a single source, with a single source for support.

Still working on it. HardWay
 
Here is a link to an actual home UPStart file. I have shared this several times over the last few years. If you download UPStart from Simplay Automated or some other source. You can view and tweek the file to see what it would be like. This is a 9000 sqft home with over 90 devices. Each room has 3 to 7+ loads. I used the SA US240 for one of the loads in each room with top rocker and 4 buttons on the bottom. This gives you scene control, 3 scenes and an off in every room. This was a retrofit and I did not need to add any switch locatons.

I would suggest only adding an extra switch to the switch plates at the enterences to the home. This will get you local control of the outside and inside at each door.

Note about the download: You will need to right click on the link "Here" and save as, Change the sufix to .upb
If you have questions about the file, please let me know.
Dave
 
Lastly, a DIY UPB system looks like it will be about 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of some hardwired options I've been quoted.

There is a reason for that. No matter what the UPB/zWave/Insteon fanboys say (and i'm one of them), hardwired will *always* be better than wireless. There's a solid physical connection to the controller, not possible to do better or as good as that.

Sure, wireless can get damn close, potentially even as much as 98% accuracy, but never 100.00%.

Of course, the big question is - is that last 2% worth 2x the price? That's a question where the answer is different for every person out there.

God knows when I remodel the house and put in a 2nd floor, i'm ripping out zWave and putting in a hardwired Homeworks system. The house remodel will probably cost $500K, what's another $25K for a top-of-the-line hardwired system put in by a pro...
 
I think the "hands-on" point is important. I know I change/add switches and modules in my system almost every week. One of the reasons I have an automation system is to be able to play around and make changes on the spur of the moment. That said, you have to decide your priorities are. If you want to set it up and be done with it, then hard-wired gives you the best reliability and still some flexibility with programming and linking. If you want to be able to grab a module and plug it into your latest brainstorm idea to test it out, then hard-wired is not for you. It really depends on how you plan to use your system.
 
Well there is the middle ground too. That's why alot of people like ALC. You still just run your HV wiring like you normally would, just add a Cat5 as well. Even if I planned just UPB or whatever else there is not a doubt in my mind I would pull a Cat5 (or more) to each switch gang as well. Then you could easily mix match hardwire with whatever else and have the most flexibility. What if you wind up like I think it was delicious and plan your whole system around UPB and then after the house is done, or even months down the road you start to get noise from outside that you can't find? Then you have to try a wireless solution which may or may not work better. If you do the hybrid like ALC you still have the flexibility you want but also don't have the worries of reliability.
 
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