Need help with Alternative Whole Home Audio System

[johnnynine]

My ideal whole home audio solution would have the following:

• 2+ sources
• 2+ zones
• amplified output to speakers
• rf remote controls
• rs232 control
• all in one unit

I haven't found anything that matches this as most everything seems to be IR distribution based.

The most common model is 4 or 6 source/zones with in wall modules to control volume and source via a CAT5 cable wired back to the amplifier. I am not able to use these due to a wiring error where my speaker wire ends at the home theater and the CAT5 from each in-wall volume control ends in a structured wiring can across the house.

My Alternate Concept:

Does anyone have any experience with the multi-zone capabilities of the Denon DRA-397?

Would the zone control be easy to use via IR... are the zone IR commands discrete or do you have to send a zone indicator command and then send your follow specific command?

What do you think about setting up a Denon DRA-397 plus a seperate amplifer for 2 zone output and using 3rd party rf remotes with an RF to IR receiver and an IR distribution block?

Also if the remotes aren't a good solution I see that Xantech makes some in wall IR based control pads that I think I could use as well.

With this unit, I think I would need a Global Cache unit to do any automation since it doesn't have rs232... but the price is good.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Johnny

 

[CollinR]

My ideal whole home audio solution would have the following:

• 2+ sources
• 2+ zones
• amplified output to speakers
• rf remote controls
• rs232 control
• all in one unit

I haven't found anything that matches this as most everything seems to be IR distribution based.

Demo SageTV

Almost unlimited sources
Almost unlimited zones

No amplifed outputs directly, option open for inexpensive conventional amplifiers or high end surround sound recievers.

RF remotes are possible both as you are discribing and more inexpensive PC based RF remotes

RS232 control is possible however many other methods are easier to implement

Not and all in one unit, it can be repaired or upgraded as time goes by. It can also be purchased in segments as budget allows.



Also this is not tied to your home, you can have zones in a guest house, your car anywhere you have a broadband connection.

 

[johnnynine]

Demo SageTV

Almost unlimited sources
Almost unlimited zones

SageTV is a software package isn't it?

I'm looking for an all hardware solution on this one I think. I don't have a pc near the speaker feeds and I would like something that is easy to turn on and off (no boot up times),etc.

Good suggestion, but I don't think it fits for me.

Thanks,
Johnny

 

[speacock]

The Denon A/V receivers have discrete codes for zone power, source and volume. I would assume that all multi-zone receivers would be the same. I have an MX-850 with RF/IR base controlling a 3803 and zone 2 just fine.

Sean

 

[twilo123]

sonos... mostly nas & internet radio though.
no rs232

 

[johnnynine]

The Denon A/V receivers have discrete codes for zone power, source and volume. I would assume that all multi-zone receivers would be the same. I have an MX-850 with RF/IR base controlling a 3803 and zone 2 just fine.

Sean

Thanks Sean, this sounds promising. I have also been looking into the MX-... remotes.

I've been thinking of using the following:

• Denon DRA-397 Stereo Receiver for whole home audio (inexpensive online)
• A second amplifier for zones 2 & 3 (in the future)
• Xantech in-wall IR controllers (I need more understanding of these)
  • Or maybe a few cheap RF remotes instead.
• MX-810 or 980 remote and RF/IR receiver to control everything including home theater
• Global Cache GC-100-06 for IR to/from home automation software.
• IR distribution hub in structured wiring can to receive Xantech in wall IR commands and send over cat5 to another distribution hub at the home theater and whole home audio receiver.

Has anyone had any experience with a setup like above?

It seems to be one the least pricey solutions I have found and gets around the fact that my in-wall controller cat 5 cables go to the structured wiring can and the speaker wires go to the home theater.

Sonos is nice but it doesn't deal with alternate sources very well, it's pricey and I already have a squeezebox (which I think is fantastic).

Johnny

 

[pkoslow]

Hi Johnny,

I've used the Denon DRA-697CI which is the next step up a few times. It will cost a little more, but has RS-232 control which would work well with your Global Cache and may be more desirable to you that IR control?

I have good luck with the URC MX remotes with the RF base stations and have also done a few installations now with their MSC-400. The MSC-400 may be overkill for what your trying to do, but the MRF-350 RF base station will work well and range can be extended around your house/property by installing up to three of the RFX-250 antenna modules.

I don't have any experience with the Xantech in-wall IR controllers, but have worked with similar from Russound and RTI.

Too bad your wiring isn't laid out properly for a more standard whole-house audio solution... my guess is by the time you get the receiver, amp(s), remote(s), wall remote(s), Global Cache and IR distribution you'll probably be near or beyond the cost of a solution from Russound, NUVO, etc.

Any way to get that CAT5 cabling from the structured wiring closet to your home theater area where the speaker wires are?

Another spin would be to get an RS-232 capable whole house audio controller/amp like the Russound CAV6.6, CAM6.6, CAA66 (they can be purchased without the keypads) and simply use multiple URC MX remotes that talk RF back to the MSC-400 that could then send RS-232 to the Russound controller. This would give you a system controllable using hand-held remotes and you could also use the new KP-900 if you have a room or two where you'd like to have wall mount keypads. The KP-900 isn't the most attractive thing in my opinion, but it's neat because it docks on the wall and then can be removed and used around the room:
http://www.universalremote.com/product_detail.php?model=136

The URC MX remotes + MSC-400 would also give you a great base for control of you home theater...

Cheers,
Paul

 

[twilo123]

pkoslow, have you used the mx810? if so, what's your take on it. i think i'm gonna pull the trigger and pick one up to start using but wanted some opinions on it.

 

[johnnynine]

Paul, thanks for the great feedback!!!

I've used the Denon DRA-697CI which is the next step up a few times. It will cost a little more, but has RS-232 control which would work well with your Global Cache and may be more desirable to you that IR control?

That would be nice but unfortunately it's out of my budget.

I have good luck with the URC MX remotes with the RF base stations and have also done a few installations now with their MSC-400. The MSC-400 may be overkill for what your trying to do, but the MRF-350 RF base station will work well and range can be extended around your house/property by installing up to three of the RFX-250 antenna modules.

The MSC-400 is probably also out of my budget. I'll likely get the MX-980 + MSC260 receiver and 2 inexpensive RF remotes. Will any of the consumer URC RF remotes work with those receivers?

Too bad your wiring isn't laid out properly for a more standard whole-house audio solution... my guess is by the time you get the receiver, amp(s), remote(s), wall remote(s), Global Cache and IR distribution you'll probably be near or beyond the cost of a solution from Russound, NUVO, etc.

I'll likely go with the handheld remotes -or- wall remotes but not both. You're probably right, but I can piecemeal it together over time, where as with the Russound/NUVO solution I have a large upfront cost that I wouldn't be able to justify.
For example I can get the Denon amp for <$200 online and a global cache now. I'll probably be getting the remote and RF base soon. Then later add another amp for zone 2/3 and a additional RF remotes later as well.

Any way to get that CAT5 cabling from the structured wiring closet to your home theater area where the speaker wires are?

I do have 3 CAT5's between them now but only one of them could be free'd up to use. I have 4 cat-5 runs to the volume controls for home audio to the structured wiring can. So if I were to use those 4 I think they would have to be for IR only so I could hub them together in the can and route them all over one cat5 to the home theater where the speaker wires are.

Another spin would be to get an RS-232 capable whole house audio controller/amp like the Russound CAV6.6, CAM6.6, CAA66 (they can be purchased without the keypads) and simply use multiple URC MX remotes that talk RF back to the MSC-400 that could then send RS-232 to the Russound controller. This would give you a system controllable using hand-held remotes and you could also use the new KP-900 if you have a room or two where you'd like to have wall mount keypads. The KP-900 isn't the most attractive thing in my opinion, but it's neat because it docks on the wall and then can be removed and used around the room:
http://www.universalremote.com/product_detail.php?model=136

The URC MX remotes + MSC-400 would also give you a great base for control of you home theater...

Yes ideally this would be perfect for me, but I can't justify that kind of cost for my use at this time.

Thanks,
Johnny

 

[pkoslow]

pkoslow, have you used the mx810? if so, what's your take on it. i think i'm gonna pull the trigger and pick one up to start using but wanted some opinions on it.

I've got one on my own coffee table right now. We've been using it for 2-3 months for our home theater. It's a nice step up quality wise from the Harmony stuff and the configuration is more flexible. Diane thinks it's a little big for her hands (compared to the smaller original equipment remotes), but this is the case with most of the higher-end learning remotes. No charging cradle for the MX-810 so when batts run low (2-3 weeks for us) you plug it into a charger like you would a cell phone.

Many of the guys that work with URC remotes dog on the MX-810 because it's the only remote in the "pro" lineup that uses a Harmony like "wizard" setup program. The software is easy to use, but most installers would have preferred configuration software similar to the other URC remotes from the pro lineup.

I've done 3-4 for customers (another one going in this week) and all have liked it. My setup at home is strictly IR, but all the customer jobs have been paired with an RF base station (MRF-350 or MSC-400).

Cheers,
Paul

 

[pkoslow]

Johnny,

Keep us informed with how you proceed.

The MX-980 is a nice remote that's very capable... I think you'll like it, but I don't think any of URC's consumer remotes work with the pro line of RF receivers?

Cheers,
Paul