Need help with securing basement

[mrshanes]

I'm looking for some advice on what types of sensors to put in my basement areas. Here's a proposed layout of the basement along with a description of what will be in each area and what I think should go there.

Room descriptions:
Shop- This will contain many small and large tools (table saw, drill press, air compressors, etc. - some of these 220v), electric subpanel, water shut-off valve, and I will also park my lawn equipment in here (tractor, push mower, trimmer, blower, etc).
Family Room - self explanatory, but will have a tv area and a play area along with natural gas fireplace.
Bedroom - self explanatory.
Bath - self explanatory.
Storage - junk storage with natural gas water heater and natural gas boiler for radiant in-floor heat.
Game Room - game tables and bar.
Home Theater - self explanatory, but this area is located under the garage.
Theater Rack - lots of heat producing amps, receivers, controllers, etc.
Mechanical / Closet - natural gas furnace, games, toys, etc. This is also the central location for Elk system and all network/cable/security/wha wire termination.

What I'm looking for is the best locations for smokes/heats/CO/Nat. Gas/Glass Breaks/Motion detectors.

Here are my thoughts:
Smokes in family room, game room, and bedroom.
Glass breaks in shop, family room, and bedroom.
Motion detector in family room that will catch motion in family room and motion between bedroom and stairs. I'm not overly as concerned with someone being in the area as I am with them coming up stairs (bedroom is really just going to be a spare room).

Where I'm really having trouble deciding is with additional smokes and heats. Do I need smokes and heats in mechanical, storage room, and shop? Just one and not the other? If so, which one? I'm limited to 12 smokes and I'm already planning 8 in the main and upper levels of the house.


Thanks for your help!
Shane

 

[mustangcoupe]

What I'm looking for is the best locations for smokes/heats/CO/Nat. Gas/Glass Breaks/Motion detectors.

Here are my thoughts:
Smokes in family room, game room, and bedroom.
Glass breaks in shop, family room, and bedroom.
Motion detector in family room that will catch motion in family room and motion between bedroom and stairs. I'm not overly as concerned with someone being in the area as I am with them coming up stairs (bedroom is really just going to be a spare room).

Where I'm really having trouble deciding is with additional smokes and heats. Do I need smokes and heats in mechanical, storage room, and shop? Just one and not the other? If so, which one? I'm limited to 12 smokes and I'm already planning 8 in the main and upper levels of the house.

I would put a glassbreak in any area where there is a chance of entry via breaking a window. I beleive a wall or obstruction can effect the sensitivity of them so dont depend on one in the next room.

As for Smokes why are you limited to 12? I dont know I have read this limitation before or is this a builder limitation? What about Rate of heat instead of pure smokes? I would want one of those in my mechanical room, and also maybe in the storage/workshop if you are planning on storing outside power tools with gas in them inside (Tractor).... As for motions, will you be using them for just security or by chance are you going to also use them for occupancy/HA purposes? I turn lights on in my house if they see motion even when disarmed.... you might want to consider one in each room

Check out the Wire your new house wiki articles in my signature.... Great information from through the years

 

[programmergeek]

Look at your local building code for smokes and heat or call the town.
I would put heat / ROR in the shop (135 deg) and utility rooms (180 deg). You want to keep smokes away from dusty areas. you can also daisy chain them together to use one zone so I don't know why you are hittina limit of 12. Also keep in mind if you want sounders in them or not and power requirnments.

As for the alarm some motions in common areas but just alarm all the doors and windows. This is most important.

One thing I don't see is occupancy sensors. put them in some common rooms/hallways etc.

Hope this helps a bit.

What I'm looking for is the best locations for smokes/heats/CO/Nat. Gas/Glass Breaks/Motion detectors.

Here are my thoughts:
Smokes in family room, game room, and bedroom.
Glass breaks in shop, family room, and bedroom.
Motion detector in family room that will catch motion in family room and motion between bedroom and stairs. I'm not overly as concerned with someone being in the area as I am with them coming up stairs (bedroom is really just going to be a spare room).

Where I'm really having trouble deciding is with additional smokes and heats. Do I need smokes and heats in mechanical, storage room, and shop? Just one and not the other? If so, which one? I'm limited to 12 smokes and I'm already planning 8 in the main and upper levels of the house.

I would put a glassbreak in any area where there is a chance of entry via breaking a window. I beleive a wall or obstruction can effect the sensitivity of them so dont depend on one in the next room.

As for Smokes why are you limited to 12? I dont know I have read this limitation before or is this a builder limitation? What about Rate of heat instead of pure smokes? I would want one of those in my mechanical room, and also maybe in the storage/workshop if you are planning on storing outside power tools with gas in them inside (Tractor).... As for motions, will you be using them for just security or by chance are you going to also use them for occupancy/HA purposes? I turn lights on in my house if they see motion even when disarmed.... you might want to consider one in each room

Check out the Wire your new house wiki articles in my signature.... Great information from through the years

 

[mrshanes]

I would put a glassbreak in any area where there is a chance of entry via breaking a window. I beleive a wall or obstruction can effect the sensitivity of them so dont depend on one in the next room.

As for Smokes why are you limited to 12? I dont know I have read this limitation before or is this a builder limitation? What about Rate of heat instead of pure smokes? I would want one of those in my mechanical room, and also maybe in the storage/workshop if you are planning on storing outside power tools with gas in them inside (Tractor).... As for motions, will you be using them for just security or by chance are you going to also use them for occupancy/HA purposes? I turn lights on in my house if they see motion even when disarmed.... you might want to consider one in each room

Check out the Wire your new house wiki articles in my signature.... Great information from through the years

I want all my smokes to be interconnected and I'm going with GE ESL350 which has a limitation of 12 being connected. That's where my limitation comes from. I've read the wiki about 30 times now. I think I've got everything just about covered, but my main concern here is which rooms should have heats, smokes, CO, nat. gas etc. I've got fireplaces, furnaces, hot water heaters, and boilers spread out all over the basement. Each one uses gas, generates CO, and is a fire risk should something go wrong. I'm looking for the best coverage without spending hundreds on sensors just for basement.

I'm not planning on using motions for occ. sensors. I might place some occ. sensors in the bathrooms for fans, but that might be about it.
Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[mrshanes]

Look at your local building code for smokes and heat or call the town.
I would put heat / ROR in the shop (135 deg) and utility rooms (180 deg). You want to keep smokes away from dusty areas. you can also daisy chain them together to use one zone so I don't know why you are hittina limit of 12. Also keep in mind if you want sounders in them or not and power requirnments.

As for the alarm some motions in common areas but just alarm all the doors and windows. This is most important.

One thing I don't see is occupancy sensors. put them in some common rooms/hallways etc.

Hope this helps a bit.

There really aren't many building codes where I'm building. We are outside of city limits, so there are no permits required, inspections, etc. I'm going to have smokes in all bedrooms/sleeping areas and main rooms of the house, including at least one on each floor. I think that pretty much covers any fire code reqs. As stated above, I just want to get the best coverage in the basement without having to install tons of sensors around the basement.
Thanks

 

[Neurorad]

Noob question alert, but how does one wire/program motion and glass break detectors, so that you can use the basement (and workshop) in the 'alarm stay' mode?

Is it just a feature of the programming? For 'alarm - away' they're activated, and for 'alarm - stay' they're deactivated, and only the window/door contacts are live?

I guess it depends on the flexibility of the controller.

 

[Steve]

Personally, I like to have glass breaks on a 24 hour instant zone since them tripping 'should' be a very rare occurrence. If I am home during the day and don't have system armed I still want to know if someone tosses a brick through a slider, etc. and I want that to be instant. I will take that tradeoff with a possible false alarm like a dropped dish or something which should also be a very rare occurrence. PIRs pretty much have to be tied to security in an away mode but used for other purposes, such as automation (albeit not as a real replacement for Occ sensors) in any mode.

But what I'd really like to know (as a southerner without a basement), is how do you get a tractor into a basement? Some kind of double door and ramp down?

As for smokes? If you are at a limit with 120V, why not put LV smokes in the basement directly into the panel? And you have to be careful not to put photoelectric smokes in dusty environments or you could get alot of false alarms. Use ROR heat detectors in any area where a smoke is not ideal.

 

[mustangcoupe]

But what I'd really like to know (as a southerner without a basement), is how do you get a tractor into a basement? Some kind of double door and ramp down?

I'd guess it is a walk out basement with double doors, or he got the teleporter working.

 

[Neurorad]

My basement, before I removed the overhead door leading from the garage into the basement.

House is on a slope, garage located at lower end of slope.

There is now a double door there, and the room is my basement workshop.

 

[mrshanes]

I'd guess it is a walk out basement with double doors

Correct!