Power setup

M

mattbuff5

Member
I have attached my power spreadsheet.  Please critique
 
The summary is as follows:
Source               Total mA
OPII                    931
OPII-Sounder     525
ExpEncl1            326
ExpEncl2            328
Aux                     8475
 
I don't have all the sources loaded to the max as I'm trying to keep it organized with wiring.  For the 8.4 A required by auxiliary power, this is where my dilemms arises.  I want to keep all my power sources inside my existing cans.  I have two Leviton 42" cans.  I only have blank space in one. I have about 20" vertical, the entire width and depth, so my goal is basically to fit all of my aux power source into a 20" x 14" x 3" depth.  
 
I originally looked at Preferred Power Products V20A18, however it does not have battery backup cababilities. 
 
Can anybody suggest a power solution for my needs?
 
Thanks
View attachment Security Planning-Zones-Power.pdf
 
 
az1324 said:
Are you using contact ratings instead of power consumption for your heat detectors?
Click to expand...
I'm glad you asked.  I was going to include a similar question as part of my original post but I didin't want to distract from the original question.
 
The heat sensors I'm using are System Sensor 5601 and 5602 - http://www.systemsensor.com/pdf/SPDS300.pdf  
 
On page 2 of the linked PDF, under the Electrical Specifications section it reads,
Operating Voltage / ContactRatings
6–125VAC/3A
6–28VDC/1A
125VDC/0.3A
250VDC/0.1A
 
To answer your question, yes I am using the contact rating.  I don't see any other documentation proving any other information.  It seems really high to me that the heat sensors each used 1A, so I checked with my distributor and they agreed that 1A was correct.
 
I would be really glad to find out I don't need 5A of power for the heat sensors.  Do you have other information?
 
Thanks.
Matt.
 
I believe the heat detectors draw no power and simply provide a contact closure to a zone input.
 
Mechanical heat detectors don't use any power. Slap your distributor for me.
 
Mechanical heat detectors are bi-metallic or pneumatic. Bi-metallic heat detectors have a strip consisting of two dissimilar metals. When the strip is heated, the metal distorts and closes a contact. These detectors tend to be very inexpensive.
Click to expand...
 
az1324 said:
Mechanical heat detectors don't use any power. Slap your distributor for me.
 
Click to expand...
So I can completely remove the Heats from from power requirements spreadsheet?
  If so, awesome.
 
And I won't slap the distributer, they have been great(most of the time) to work with and giving me great prices.  However I will definitely educate them on this!  haha
 
Each output has max currents that you must follow. 
 
There are two things you must determine. First you need to determine how much current each think draws. If you read the instructions, it will say.
 
Next, you have to decide if you want to be UL complient or not.  If you can, then do, but if not, its probably O.K. unless your insurance company requires it.
 
For U.L. the siren total can't be over 300ma, otherwise up to 1 amp is O.K.
For U.L. all motion detectors, and other sensor loads can't exceed 250ma, otherwise up to 1 amp is O.K.
 
The siren probably only runs for a few minutes, so I'd be more concerned about the motion detectors, smoke alarms, etc. because they always draw battery power when the power is out.
 
Enclosures have their own battery and their own limits.
 
Although you might be able to physically fit the Altronix components in your 42" can, at a minimum you would need to follow all the electrical code regulations for mixing class 1 and class 2 wiring within a single enclosure.  The Altronix power supply is UL listed and has met those requirements for the complete product.  But by moving the pieces into your enclosure, you would have some new issues since you've mixed in the other components of your system. 
 
I don't think transplanting the components would be a good idea.
 
Agree.
 
Especially in the case of that power supply, as it has HV and LV on the same circuit board and a design element to separate the two (albeit basically cardboard).
 
mattbuff5 said:
I'm looking at the Altronix AL600ULXPD16CB.  The entire enclosure would fit in my exisiting can's free space, except for the depth.  Do you think I would be able to take the boards out of the enclosure and install in my can?
 
http://www.altronix.com/products/product.php?name=AL600ULXPD16CB
Click to expand...
Matt, did you look at the Altronix eFlow6N16D?  It is a "power supply/charger that converts a 120VAC 60Hz input into sixteen (16) Class 2 rated PTC protected selectable 12VDC or 24VDC power-limited outputs with a total of 6 amps max. The unit includes a Class 2 rated unswitched aux. output. It also offers a suite of features that includes fire alarm disconnect, over voltage protection, and low power disconnect which prevents deep discharge of stand-by batteries."
 
Do experts on CT have much experience with these canned Altronix power supplies? This sure looks like a great way to get all the HV out of the main alarm can and isolate it in a power can. I'm curious about why I'd pick the AL600ULXPD16CB vs. the eFlow6N16D?
 
Altronix is phasing out the AL line and moving into "named" products. Basically it's the same components installed in a different cabinet. The base power supply is the same, the only revision is the distribution method.
 
I've installed literally thousands of Altronix supplies.
 
In the case of an alarm panel, you're never going to be able to easily get rid of the AC transformer and install something sleek and sexy. There's additional considerations for an aux power supply, such as what happens when it runs on battery (many lose voltage output, even below the rated) and what other functions it has. For load shedding from the main panel, it's an every day affair for many installs, but for a run of the mill small system, it's generally not necessary unless the panel is power starved out of the box (like an M1 or the Vista panels). If you don't supervise the AC and LB of the supply, that's missing what really should be done in a prudent install.
 
Also, PTC's vs. fuses is a design criteria that needs to be considered as PTC's tend to allow more voltage through before they actually trip, so if you're connecting sensitive electronics, don't choose them.
 
DELInstallations said:
...
Also, PTC's vs. fuses is a design criteria that needs to be considered as PTC's tend to allow more voltage through before they actually trip, so if you're connecting sensitive electronics, don't choose them.
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate on this? I'm considering the eFlow102N8D (which has PTC's) to power several components. Some are part of my M1G system (remote expansion boards, Uplink 2500, wireless receiver, etc.) and others are not (a couple of LAN switches). It looks like most Elk PS's use PTC's, so is it safe to assume that those components are not too sensitive? Can you give some examples of sensitive electronics that shouldn't be connected? There is an eFow102N8 that uses fuses instead of PTC's, if necessary.
 
Thanks,
Ira
 
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