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Broconne's Wiring Adventure


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#31 broconne

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:12 AM

Does anyone know of any good flipdown touchscreens or flipdown mounts for a television?

#32 Jimmyjam

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:35 AM

I don't have this mount yet, but it was the one I plan on buying when I do need one.

#33 broconne

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 07:17 PM

I don't have this mount yet, but it was the one I plan on buying when I do need one.


That looks nice. I wonder if there is anything with better than a 3 inch profile...

#34 broconne

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Posted 05 March 2009 - 09:44 PM

Kitchen

Questions peppered throughout this one..


Room Purpose: Cooking, Cleaning. There is technically some room at the island for chairs, but I doubt we will eat here.

H/A Equipment:

The room has an occupancy/motion sensor pre-wire, I placed it in the corner but I am sure it will pick up some motion in the breakfast. Should also hopefully pick up entry into the kitchen from the mudroom.

There are 9(9!!) cat5 cables run for ALC/OnQ. One for the 6 recessed lights around the island, one for the pendants, one for the under cabinet lighting, one for a scene switch, one for the sink light, one for the recessed light behind the cooktop, one for the hood (halogen - hope that works with an ALC relay), 1 three way for the recessed, and and 1 more scene switches.

Two current sensors, one for the dishwasher and one for the double oven.

Security/Safety Equipment:
1 Window Contact
1 Gas Sensor
1 Heat Sensor

Lighting:
Ok wow - a lot of lights. The set of 4 will control the 6 main recessed lights, the two pendants, and the under cabinet lights, one scene switch (cooking, cleanup, all on, all off?).
The second light area is a single switch for the recessed above the sink.
The next set of two is for the recessed light behind the cooktop and the hood light.
The last set of two is for a scene switch and a 3 way to the 6 main recessed.


H/A Goals:
(1) Turn on the lights when occupied - specially low lights for midnight snacking.
(2) Turn off lights when unoccupied for a duration.
(3) Provide some useful scene lighting.
(4) Notify when dishwasher run complete (either TTS or just a popup on CQC). (Current sensor)
(5) Notify if oven(s) left on for extended periods of time (Current sensor).


Safety/Security Goals:
(1) Detect gas leaks or burners on with no ignition.
(2) Detect a fire with a rate of rise sensor.


Audio:
You may note there is only one speaker - the other speaker is in the breakfast room. I am starting to get concerned about this. Should I make them separate zones? I am worried about having sound hot spots where it is too loud..


Misc:
There are two vacpan kickplates. One under the prep area and another one near the breakfast room.


The Kitchen Layout:
Posted Image

#35 Kyle S

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 10:11 AM

(2) There is a big question about how to orient this room. We can pay about $1000 to put a niche above the fireplace that has doors that can hide a TV. That would orient the room towards the fireplace.

I can't stand TV's over fireplaces. TV's should be at eye level. I watch TV sitting or laying on the sofa, not standing up.


Well, that is one strong vote against :-)

I will keep a tally.

1 - No


We found out a neighbor of ours built the niche, we are going to go visit/meet them on Sunday and see how we like it. I really thought I would be opposed to the TV over the fireplace thing.. But our current apartment came with a 52 inch over the fireplace and it is no strain at all on the neck, etc. One thought is that if we put the TV over the fireplace, then people (company) can be watching TV yet not be cut off from people in the kitchen. If it is on the other wall, then your back is to the kitchen.


Make that 2 for No.

1.) Height. I know a couple have said that it doesn't bother them now, but, it might in the future. I did a lot of research before I decided to wall mount my 52" LCD. And I found that most people mount the TV to high. It should be mounted at eye level while sitting in your favorite recliner.

Now, did I follow that advice to a "T"... no. I mounted my TV a little higher. The reason being is the living room is connected to the breakfast area which is connected to the kitchen. I wanted to be able to see the TV from the kitchen. So, I took the average from sitting down and standing and mounted the TV there (I'm short, so it wasn't that much higher :) )

2.) Heat. We have a gas fireplace and the wall does tend to get a little toasty. The TV already puts out enough heat itself, no need to make it any hotter and shorten the life of the TV.

Just my .02 cents.

-Kyle

#36 beelzerob

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 10:37 AM

"No" vote for TV over the fireplace, but purely for the aesthetics.

I'd like to hear about what you choose for a gas sensor, and where you mount it. We've got a propane stove, and I'm not sure exactly where to mount a gas sensor where it'd have the best chance of detecting.

#37 sic0048

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:05 AM

I should mention that my parents build an alcove to put the TV in over the fireplace. They had the TV before framing out the wall, so it only has about a 1/2" gap around the TV on all sides. We put the TV on a nice mount that adjusts forwards and backwards and allows us to put the TV flush with the wall. If we need access to the rear of the TV, you can still pull it out farther to wiring it all up. It looks beautiful IMHO. Like a piece of art because it doesn't stick out from the wall at all.

#38 broconne

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:37 AM

I should mention that my parents build an alcove to put the TV in over the fireplace. They had the TV before framing out the wall, so it only has about a 1/2" gap around the TV on all sides. We put the TV on a nice mount that adjusts forwards and backwards and allows us to put the TV flush with the wall. If we need access to the rear of the TV, you can still pull it out farther to wiring it all up. It looks beautiful IMHO. Like a piece of art because it doesn't stick out from the wall at all.


Yes with the niche we would be able to do the same thing. They would frame the space around whatever dimensions we gave them. I have a 42 inch LCD I was using in the bedroom, but not sure that would be big enough for this space. We can also go one step further and close doors painted the trim color in front of the TV so when not in use it will blend in nicely. We are going to visit someone's house that did that this weekend.

So, is that one yes vote for above the TV?

#39 broconne

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:40 AM

"No" vote for TV over the fireplace, but purely for the aesthetics.

I'd like to hear about what you choose for a gas sensor, and where you mount it. We've got a propane stove, and I'm not sure exactly where to mount a gas sensor where it'd have the best chance of detecting.


On the gas sensor, you and me both.. I guess I have some research to do.. I need to take these plans and walk over to the model and see if I would be ok with all the placement.. I had hoped I could actually put it above the cabinet above the cooktop - I guess I need to do some reading on gas sensors.. Anyone out there chime in with first hand knowledge of placement and detection capabilities?

#40 beelzerob

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:45 AM

There's plenty of debate on placement, I WOULD be interested in knowing if there's an industry standard.

Because gas is heavier than air, there's an argument for placement nearer the floor. But then it's suggested that in the typical house, there's enough air circulation in a room that gas will still be sensed almost anywhere.

#41 broconne

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 05:01 PM

I modified a bunch of the pictures and posts above:

Here is a summary of the changes:

Breakfast Room: Only has 3 OnQ/ALC Switches instead of 4.
Den: Redrew the entire diagram (it was stuck on metric and I couldn't figure out how to change that). Also moved the light switches over a bit.
Dining Room: Slides the 3 way and scene switch over - rotated the speakers over.
Kitchen: Moved one set of lighting controls to the right side of the cooktop. We are both right handed and reached over the cooktop probably isn't the best idea ever.
Powder Room: Added another OnQ/ALC Switch - need one for the fan, one for the sconces and one for the recessed.

#42 broconne

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:42 PM

Mudroom

Another day, another room in visio.

Room Purpose: Most frequently used entrance and exit from the house.

H/A Equipment:
The room has an occupancy/motion sensor pre-wire, I placed it in the corner. There are 3 cat5 cables run for ALC/OnQ. One for the 3 recessed lights, one for the hall lights to the left (3 way), and one for the closet light. 2 Door contacts, one on the garage door and one in the closet door.

Security/Safety Equipment:
1 Window Contact
2 Door contacts
1 Keypad


H/A Goals:
(1) Turn on the lights when occupied.
(2) Turn off lights when unoccupied for a duration.
(3) Turn on the closet light when door is opened, turn off when closed, turn off when left open for a duration, notify if home occupied and door left open for a duration (the cats eat shoe laces).



Audio:
No audio in here.

Misc:
There is one vacpan kick plate.. The bench you see will be added later by me, so not sure how I am going to handle the kick plate. Hopefully, they can just pre-wire for it and I can punch in the wall a small amount and run the rest of the tube required when I build the bench.


The Mudroom:
Posted Image

#43 MavRic

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 05:52 AM

This is a great thread so far and will hopefully make broconne's place really well thought out.

On the TV over fireplace my vote is NO as well. Partially for the height and partially because i don't necearilly want the TV to be the focal point of the room.

You mentioned a niche with 'doors'....think carefully about that...almost every house i've ever visited that had a 'tv in the closet/cabinet' type arrangement had the doors ALWAYS open, so this would defeat the purpose i think and you may as well surface mount in thart case.

Maybe i missed it earlier in the thread, but is the fireplace gas? For wood I would be a bit concerned (soot/smoke particles on the screen).

Not HA related but i also wanted to add my suggestion for the kitchen. The Visio shows a very deep fridge that sticks out from the cabinets. Although this is quite standard in most homes i find it quite ugly.

For a higher end home which yours appear to be since it's freakign HUGE I woudl suggest looking into a counter depth fridge so it doesnt stick out so much. The expensive solution would be a true counter depth built-in model (such a Vikings that have the compressors on top). I went with a cheaper solution and have a counter depth fridge at much lower cost, i did however give up some depth in the fridge. If you're a large family you may need the storage. I love the fridge and how it fits..they only grid is that a 12 can diet coke fridgepack doesnt fit in length wise so we have to take the cans out.

Oh, and have a good plan for your smoke/fire sensors. If you plan to install ELK or similar after you move in you will need some sort of solution in place to pass inspection. I have AC hardwired smoke sensors that are all interconnected which came as standard from the builder and allow passage of inspection. I didn't pre-wire a LV run to each so now I'm not so sure how to tie them all in. Luckilly there is only 1 on the ground floor (open floor plan) and all the ones on the upstairs i can get to from the attic to add LV wire to them.

Edited by MavRic, 07 March 2009 - 06:00 AM.


#44 TLCNORM

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 11:13 AM

I vote NO for Tv over fireplace. I have my 42" mounted kinda low over a home built TV cabinet and it is at perfect height to watch. People do comment on how low it looks, but it is there to watch not for a decoration. I think I read centerline of TV should be 6" above eye level from position you would be watching.

#45 broconne

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 12:53 PM

This is a great thread so far and will hopefully make broconne's place really well thought out.

On the TV over fireplace my vote is NO as well. Partially for the height and partially because i don't necearilly want the TV to be the focal point of the room.

Lots of No votes for the TV over the fireplace. We will make the final call after seeing an example on Sunday.

You mentioned a niche with 'doors'....think carefully about that...almost every house i've ever visited that had a 'tv in the closet/cabinet' type arrangement had the doors ALWAYS open, so this would defeat the purpose i think and you may as well surface mount in thart case.

Good advice. I think that might be true as well.

Maybe i missed it earlier in the thread, but is the fireplace gas? For wood I would be a bit concerned (soot/smoke particles on the screen).

Yep, Gas fireplace.. I am not really a fan of gas I like the smell of a wood fire - but the convenience of gas might mean we use it more than twice a year.

Not HA related but i also wanted to add my suggestion for the kitchen. The Visio shows a very deep fridge that sticks out from the cabinets. Although this is quite standard in most homes i find it quite ugly.

For a higher end home which yours appear to be since it's freakign HUGE I woudl suggest looking into a counter depth fridge so it doesnt stick out so much. The expensive solution would be a true counter depth built-in model (such a Vikings that have the compressors on top). I went with a cheaper solution and have a counter depth fridge at much lower cost, i did however give up some depth in the fridge. If you're a large family you may need the storage. I love the fridge and how it fits..they only grid is that a 12 can diet coke fridgepack doesnt fit in length wise so we have to take the cans out.

This is a sticking point. We had wanted to do a built-in fully integrated with custom doors. But the builder did this on another home with a sub-zero and apparently it has been a nightmare for him. So he will no longer do it. He has said we can talk directly with the cabinet company and have them come out after we close and install the panels - I am worried about a perfect match with that. . So that leaves us with a standard refrigerator or we could do a stainless steel cabinet depth. I have trouble stomaching the 5k for a stainless steel cabinet depth. If I am going to spend that kind of cash I want it to blend into the cabinetry. The refrigerator we were looking at was the bosch french door builtin. We need to do a french door refrigerator because the island is so close to the fridge.

What fridge did you end up going with that was cabinet depth. It sounds like maybe you did it after the fact - does it look builtin from the front as well?



Oh, and have a good plan for your smoke/fire sensors. If you plan to install ELK or similar after you move in you will need some sort of solution in place to pass inspection. I have AC hardwired smoke sensors that are all interconnected which came as standard from the builder and allow passage of inspection. I didn't pre-wire a LV run to each so now I'm not so sure how to tie them all in. Luckilly there is only 1 on the ground floor (open floor plan) and all the ones on the upstairs i can get to from the attic to add LV wire to them.


Hmm, I hadn't really thought about that. Code here requires HV smokes that are interconnected. I thought the elk supported HV smokes - but perhaps not?? They are pre-wired to the attic and basement per code, so I figured I could tap into them there. When I move upstairs, you can see I did wire for some LV smokes near the bedroom. Is there anything wrong with my plan to tie into the HV smokes?

Hope not :-)




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