Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Elk M1 output 2


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 kojack

kojack

    Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 10:25 AM

Is output 2 (Siren) treated like the other outputs? I am trying to remote control output 2 from my iPhone (I want to hear how far the siren sounds) but I cannot activate output 2 through the my iPhone eKeypad. I can see it on eyKeypad and it seems to be performing the switch but nothing happens. I can activate all other outputs including output 1 (speaker)

I am missing something??

#2 video321

video321

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 774 posts
  • Location:NJ
  • Hardware:Elk M1, Mi Casa Verde Vera
  • Tech:Z-Wave
  • Audio:Custom
  • Video:Custom
  • CCTV:analog, dvr
  • Phone:Ooma

Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:39 AM

From what I recall you can't trigger output2 on demand.

#3 kojack

kojack

    Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:49 AM

From what I recall you can't trigger output2 on demand.


I am coming to this conclusion. But I can trigger output 2 from a rule... whenever F3 turn output 2 on for 5 seconds.... I guess I just want to know if it is normal behaviour as I went through the M1 manual and saw noting on this

#4 Work2Play

Work2Play

    Cocoonut

  • -=Gold Supporter=-
  • 4435 posts
  • Location:Northern California
  • Experience:guru
  • Software:Elve
  • Hardware:Elk M1, RUC-01
  • Tech:X10-RF, UPB
  • Audio:AirPlay
  • Video:XBMC
  • CCTV:ip, dvr
  • Phone:3CX, Asterisk, FreePBX, Grandstream, Ooma

Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:57 AM

I do know that people do it via rules - lots of people chirp their siren for different purposes... but I believe I heard that before too, that you can't turn it on directly. This isn't something I feel like testing though!

#5 kojack

kojack

    Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

I do know that people do it via rules - lots of people chirp their siren for different purposes... but I believe I heard that before too, that you can't turn it on directly. This isn't something I feel like testing though!


Absolutely correct. I chirp the siren when someone gets close to my boat when the alarm is activated. For the remote control of out 2 just wanted to know if it was normal behaviour of not being able to control. As I said the idea was to do it for a final test. I even tried it with a task.... turn on for 1 second and that too does not work remotely.....So I will just skip this. Now finishing off my last part of installation (controlling my outside Infra Red heaters with my M1 and UPB) and will then be cleaning off some of the things that should not be accessible remotely such as Sirens, water pumps, etc..

#6 miamicanes

miamicanes

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 146 posts
  • Location:South Florida
  • Experience:average

Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:21 PM

This might seem like a silly question, but is there any straightforward way (using ElkRP) to configure the M1 to trigger output2 (siren) *only* when a smoke detector on Zone16 triggers a 'fire' alarm?

Specifically, I don't want output2 to trigger the siren when the burglar alarm goes off. The safety of my cats is more important to me than anything I own, and if a burglar smashes a window or leaves the door open, I don't want the siren to scare my cats and induce them to run outside (I live by a major 6-lane road, made worse by hundreds of 2-4 foot feral iguanas that roam the area. Seriously. The iguanas are big enough to injure or kill a cat.) Fire is a special case -- if I'm forced outside before I can rescue them, I *want* them to run outside if they can. Plus, I keep the speaker's volume intentionally low (to avoid scaring my cats. I figure the burglar will hear it just fine as it calmly informs him that the police have been notified. ;-)

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

#7 jpmargis

jpmargis

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Experience:average
  • Software:Harmony
  • Hardware:Elk M1
  • Video:Windows Media Center
  • CCTV:ip
  • Phone:POTS

Posted 08 June 2012 - 10:11 PM

How about this? Wire Output 3 in series with the siren. Then use a rule to enable the siren only when the smoke detector is triggered.

#8 Work2Play

Work2Play

    Cocoonut

  • -=Gold Supporter=-
  • 4435 posts
  • Location:Northern California
  • Experience:guru
  • Software:Elve
  • Hardware:Elk M1, RUC-01
  • Tech:X10-RF, UPB
  • Audio:AirPlay
  • Video:XBMC
  • CCTV:ip, dvr
  • Phone:3CX, Asterisk, FreePBX, Grandstream, Ooma

Posted 09 June 2012 - 12:43 AM

I thought you could set the cutoff timer to 0 to prevent the siren from sounding... so set the burglary and other cutoff timers to 0 and they'll never sound... can someone confirm?

but normally an outdoor siren isn't all that loud inside, depending on how/where you install it... can't you just fix where it's at so it's less of an issue inside?

#9 DELInstallations

DELInstallations

    Cocoonut

  • Professionals
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3239 posts
  • Software:Custom
  • Hardware:CaddX, DSC, Elk M1, Custom
  • Tech:X10-PLC, X10-RF, UPB, INSTEON, Z-Wave, ZigBee, C-Bus, 1-Wire, RadioRA, RadioRA2, Crestron, AMX, Custom, CentraLite, Control4
  • Audio:Custom
  • Video:Custom
  • CCTV:analog, ip, dvr

Posted 09 June 2012 - 08:44 AM

You could run it through Out 3, however I can foresee some output trouble when the relay changes state and disconnects the siren/speaker manually. I'm sure you could possible run via cutoff timers, but I believe that will also affect Out 1's operation.

Playing devil's advocate, but if the only time Out 2 is desired to fire is during a fire event, why even bother really using it? You could, however install (if not already there) a siren and control that via Out 3 and forgo any supervision issues the panel would call out on Out 2.

#10 miamicanes

miamicanes

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 146 posts
  • Location:South Florida
  • Experience:average

Posted 09 June 2012 - 10:49 AM

Siren (actually, it's a commodity 106dB Ademco sounder) --To ensure that an actual fire would wake me up. I've spent 20-40 minutes in semi-twilight not quite grasping the significance of my alarm clock.

Speaker -- let me know which door just opened (if I'm home when someone enters), and to let *me* know the alarm was accidentally triggered if I (or a houseguest) accidentally opens a door or window when in 'stay' mode.

M1G itself -- alert me using Google C2DM via the android app I'm developing that interacts with the M1 via a serial-ethernet bridge through an Arduino acting like a firewall (I'm not insane enough to expose the M1's serial port directly to the internet.) I looked at the M1XEP, but wasn't satisfied with its capabilities. I wanted to have it notify an Android app I'm writing via C2DM, and didn't see any obvious way to implement it (at least, not from the documentation on the M1XEP I was able to scrape up), so I went with plan B: roll my own hardware ;-)

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

#11 DELInstallations

DELInstallations

    Cocoonut

  • Professionals
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3239 posts
  • Software:Custom
  • Hardware:CaddX, DSC, Elk M1, Custom
  • Tech:X10-PLC, X10-RF, UPB, INSTEON, Z-Wave, ZigBee, C-Bus, 1-Wire, RadioRA, RadioRA2, Crestron, AMX, Custom, CentraLite, Control4
  • Audio:Custom
  • Video:Custom
  • CCTV:analog, ip, dvr

Posted 09 June 2012 - 01:58 PM

Out 1 would be sufficient for internal speakers and general speaker usage. Then, by strapping out Out 2, you would not have supervision issues appearing, then use Out 3, with an appropriate power source for the oustide siren via Out 3 and a rule.

Are you not using Out 1 for inside speakers and only Out 2 for the system notification purposes?

#12 jpmargis

jpmargis

    Dedicated Cocooner

  • Registered
  • PipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Experience:average
  • Software:Harmony
  • Hardware:Elk M1
  • Video:Windows Media Center
  • CCTV:ip
  • Phone:POTS

Posted 09 June 2012 - 06:16 PM

OUT2 is already the most appropriate power source. OUT3 handles switching between the siren and the 2.2K resistor.

#13 DELInstallations

DELInstallations

    Cocoonut

  • Professionals
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3239 posts
  • Software:Custom
  • Hardware:CaddX, DSC, Elk M1, Custom
  • Tech:X10-PLC, X10-RF, UPB, INSTEON, Z-Wave, ZigBee, C-Bus, 1-Wire, RadioRA, RadioRA2, Crestron, AMX, Custom, CentraLite, Control4
  • Audio:Custom
  • Video:Custom
  • CCTV:analog, ip, dvr

Posted 09 June 2012 - 09:17 PM

OUT2 is already the most appropriate power source. OUT3 handles switching between the siren and the 2.2K resistor.


I'd feel better if the configuration is benched to verify no issues arise when the panel switches OUT 3 on and connects OUT 2 to the siren.

Without metering the circuits in question, it is very possible the internal driver on the siren has more resistancce than the 2.2K EOLR which is going to now be in parallel with the load, which may or may not fire.

I'd also be unsure if the panel will pick up the switch in loads as they happen and generate the OUT 2 trouble or if the event happens fast enough to avoid this.

#14 Work2Play

Work2Play

    Cocoonut

  • -=Gold Supporter=-
  • 4435 posts
  • Location:Northern California
  • Experience:guru
  • Software:Elve
  • Hardware:Elk M1, RUC-01
  • Tech:X10-RF, UPB
  • Audio:AirPlay
  • Video:XBMC
  • CCTV:ip, dvr
  • Phone:3CX, Asterisk, FreePBX, Grandstream, Ooma

Posted 10 June 2012 - 12:58 AM

Without metering the circuits in question, it is very possible the internal driver on the siren has more resistancce than the 2.2K EOLR which is going to now be in parallel with the load, which may or may not fire.

I do know it's perfectly fine to leave the stock resistor in place of the speaker, even during alarm situations; as outdoor sirens get banned in more places, it's not uncommon to run them that way and it doesn't hurt them.

I see your point on the switching, but I'd bet it's fast enough to not hurt it... then again, no way to know without actual testing.

#15 DELInstallations

DELInstallations

    Cocoonut

  • Professionals
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3239 posts
  • Software:Custom
  • Hardware:CaddX, DSC, Elk M1, Custom
  • Tech:X10-PLC, X10-RF, UPB, INSTEON, Z-Wave, ZigBee, C-Bus, 1-Wire, RadioRA, RadioRA2, Crestron, AMX, Custom, CentraLite, Control4
  • Audio:Custom
  • Video:Custom
  • CCTV:analog, ip, dvr

Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:29 AM

I wasn't referring to whether or not the 2.2K can be left on the terminals or not, that's already established.

I was referring to wiring a siren in parallel with the bell terminals and a 2.2K, using OUT 3 to provide either the + or - switched to drive the siren, which may or may not function based on what sort of resistance the internal siren driver within the siren itself has in relation to the 2.2K resistor.

Basic electrical, it takes the path of least resistance, so if the load itself via the driver's circuit board is higher than the 2.2K, it won't ever work since it won't get any voltage.

I wouldn't be worried about hurting the board, I'd be wondering about all the trouble events showing up in the panel when it's getting driven, especially when it's doing a temp-3 pulse.

We too, have plenty of juristictions that have banned outside sirens as well.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users