what do you recommend for whole house audio, for local and streaming services (spotify etc)

I’m trying to setup a multi room audio around the house (6-10 zones) with high quality in a single listening room and background music elsewhere. By high quality I mean using a DAC in the $500 range. Current music is all FLAC / ALAC to an Airport Express to a receiver using itunes. I'd like to be able to play my own music as well as browse spotify for streaming music, all through a single interface on an ipad to control everything. I also want to be able to play at least one stream to all zones, synced.
 
Do I need a matrix switches and a software controller to do this?  Any recommendations
 
sonos is a good option but at $350 per zone - unamplified, I find that too high. Someting around the $200 per zone would be better.
 
I could possibly use sonos as a source to a controller/ matrix, but sonos are not supportive in distributing their app to other software controllers? I see homeseer has a plugin, not sure how well it works or are people just simply not integrating the sonos control into their HA controllers and just using it by itself?
 
I've read a lot of posts of people using autopatch, extron and some B&K CT600/610 (have adv of built-in Amp) switchers. Thes are obviously now old and discontinued, but are cheaply available on Ebay. Are these a recommended option. Still reliable?
 
 
I also want to keep an eye to the future when choosing a solution, when I'd like to add video, security, lighting, irrigation etc (HA in general).
 
 

The homeseer plugin for Sonos works great.  I use it constantly.
I only have 4 zones though.  I agree with you on the price to higher number of zones.
One thing I did is I have the unamplified Sonos in my wiring closet connected to my receiver in the family room via digital coax.
I also plugged speakers into the composite connections on it so that zone plays in my office where the closet is.
Not a seperate zone but works for me.
 
I don't really have any experience on the other options out there other than there seems to be something for everyone.

I know Sonos is expensive but it works and works well. I've read of support issues fom some companies more known for distributed audio in terms of adding new feature or supporting units a few years old. I was considering a non-Sonos solution, although I still have no clue what that would have been, until I was down in my dads basement and ran across a bag with two Sonos ZP80s that he had apparently bought when a stereo store went out of business. He had no clue what he had and that was the start of my Sonos system. I bought two Play 5 systems and frankly I'm not that keen on the sound, the Bose Sounddock blows it away IMO and I don't really care for Bose. However, now I will be able to move the Play5 wherever I want (patio, basement, garage) without having to put speakers in less used areas.

For my house, I am setting up the living room and kitchen with high quality sound and then will go with more mainstream speakers in the other rooms. I purchased several Parasound HCA-1000A amps off of eBay for the distributed audio and a NAD C272 to drive my kitchen speakers.

The thing I like about Sonos is that I can control it from the Sonos app on my iPad, computer, or Phonos on my Windows Phone 8. There is an app on just about every platform and it simply works. When I plugged the old ZP80s in, it paired quickly, downloaded an update and was playing music within a few minutes. This is after having being in the basement for several years. And it just works, especially the grouping(syncing) feature.

A less expensive option would be Airplay but it isn't as ubiquitous although many new receivers support it...the main issue for me a least is that I use more than just the Apple Ecosystem. Another option is Squeezebox but Logitech just dropped that product line so no telling where it will end up.

Really unless you plan to go high end, I don't think you'll find a better solution than Sonos. And you'll be paying about the same regardless as the network servers on the nicer systems (Nuvo, Xantech, Russound) are anywhere for $2,000-$4,000 or more. There are many other choices than what I listed but I'm purposely leaving out the Control4, Crestron crowd because those are crazy expensive.

If you do come across a better solution, definitely come back and let us know.

David

Thanks guys,
I've been researching this damn topic on and off for 2 years. I agree, sonos works, simply that. So its quite compelling, but expensive.
The other options are even worse, Russond, niles, nuvo, crazy prices, and the key pads don't even have metadata, or at least until recently with russond I believe.either way, too expensive and too limited. Very little if any streaming services. There's a reason why casatunes has hooked up with them to supply a controller for them to suppy the streaming services and the app. And casatunes has also follow suit with crazy prices. Although I would say at least with them you getting a supper app and great content.
 
Itunes/airplay, yes cheap with airport expresses / ATV's, but no streaming services. And yes, squeezebox touch is  discontinued so that can't be trusted.
I was also looking at Irule, they use a plugin for both itunes and sonos, itunes would be fine but their sonos plugin only supports local content, no spotify.
 
And in all cases I was hoping to get 24 bit / 96khz flax files into my main zone, which is even more difficult. Spotify won't play lossless, so that can't be used as a playback option.
What worries me about unofficial plugins is that they break, and there's goes the WAF. not mention my own !
 
Whch brought me to the whole HA front end, do I need to use something like  CQC / mainlobby or other that would use a matrix maybe.
 
HTD do some good value with multi room controllers, but they don't have a source, so if you added a sonos, your back to 2 apps , one for sonos, and one for the zone volume
 
 
derek

Yep, you've captured most of my frustration too. I got into the home automation hobby about 8 months ago and coming from technology, I thought there would be some cool technology for the home. Boy was I wrong.

I'm working on my kitchen remodel now and have been trying to come up with speakers and a sub for the kitchen. It looks like I will be ordering one or two mid to high end ceiling speakers to see what I like since there aren't any places nearby for me to listen to speakers, especially ceiling speakers. Right now I have NHT, B&W, Kef, Focal, Definitive, Atlantic Technology, Boston Acoustics, Sunfire, etc in various flavors of speakers and subs. When I get a chance I'll do some listening tests and report on the results. I also ordered a minDSP 4x10 HD to handle crossover and EQ duties for my ktichen. I'm thinking of getting the HRT Streamer II USB DAC for some testing from my laptop but wouldn't be long term. While some of what I ordered is new, I'm also ordering quite a bit of used stuff off of eBay, which will allow me to sell what I don't like without a loss.

David

The new Nuvo system appears to be a decent option, from the surface. I haven't heard from any real-world users yet, though, so if you can drag your feet a little longer it may turn out to be a good option.

Closest off the shelf solution I've found is using the Pioneer N50 network streamer. setup would be...
 
N50 (which airplay enabled) in the main room (networked or if you want to sync with other airplay clients then connect it as USB DAC from a PC ) and AE's/ATV's for zones. N50 APP plays back local Hi Res content or lo res spotify via DLNA to itself. If I want to use it as a multizone source then switch to the itunes remote, enable airplay on the N50, and play tunes via airplay to the N50 and to AE/ATV's, all zones at Redbook, hopefully in sync. Could also use the spotify app to stream to all airplay devices at this point as well.

Thus getting Hi Res / Spotify in main room via N50 app OR and synced Redbook in all zones via itunes app, OR Spotify in all zones via Spotify App. Even if I ditch the Hi Res requirement, I will still need 2 apps for Spotify and zoned Redbook content.

Are you sure you just didn't confuse yourself with what you just posted? HAHA, yeah, sounds easy and elegant. Not that I find Sonos that elegant and I'm definitely not happy with the lesser Pandora streaming quality. Good thing about Sonos is that even used equipment is near the original price. It is better than Apple at keeping its value so even if I find a better solution later, I'll likely be able to sell the Sonos gear without taking a loss (or much of one).

Nuvo system looks nice for local music but is it any better with streaming services over Sonos?

CQC has good support for the Sonos, if you do go that way.

I'm sure I'll need some help with that in a few weeks/month when I start to play with CQC and Sonos.

By the way, I came across this sub when looking at some ceiling speakers on the Boston Acoustics website. I have a fondness for Boston Acoustics because I had their pro series separates in my truck in high school along with a sweet and tight 10 inch sub. For $150 for an in ceiling/floor subwoofer with enclosure I thought what the heck and ordered the sub linked below. Even better, shipping was free and came quick via FedEx. Anyway, I just hooked it up on my table and my first impressions are favorable. I bought it for music for my kitchen so I'm definitely not recommending this for theater use although I'll test it more later. As a matter of fact, I'm not recommending this sub at all yet...I've got to put it through its paces more and compare it to my Focal sub to see how truly musical it is. So far I am pleased though.

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?CatId=HomeAudio(BostonAcoustics_US)&SubCatId=Subwoofers(BostonAcoustics_US)&Pid=Sub10F(BostonAcoustics)

David

I just took advantage of this offer from Bestbuy - get $250 off a Sonos Amp when you buy a speaker - yes thats right a single speaker - I just bought six sets - i.e. 6 Sonos Amps.
 
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp;jsessionid=15C48C29170D0F24867B36B1858D54B7.bbolsp-app04-138?type=category&id=pcmcat295600050016
 
The cheapest speaker is $137, so $499 - $250 + $137 = $386 for a Sonos AMP.  
 
You can then sell the speakers if you don't need them on Ebay like I intend to for more savings.
 
Every little bit helps.

Nice! And then you can sell an unopened Sonos ConnectAmp on eBay and turn around and buy a Sonos Connect if you don't need the amp. I would have jumped on that deal if it was for the regular Connect.

And I would have gone with the Definitive ProMonitor 800 for $145 as it is more popular and likely easier to sell.

Well there are plenty of options out there, but not all of them are going to be cheap!
 
Personally I am running a B&K CT600 whole house system for background zones and Integra receivers for surround sound zones.  Most of my speakers are Proficient brand, but there is another brand or two mixed in as well.  The system works very well and the sound quality is great.  I picked the B&K system because of it's better sound quality and higher wattage per zone.  The one major drawback to the B&K system is the ugly keypads.  However I use CQC as my central controller and do not have a single keypad installed in my house.  I use touchscreens, IR remotes (which is the easiest method in rooms with a TV), tablets and smart phones to control everything.
 
The B&K systems are pretty cheap on ebay now.  I regularly see the 6 zone systems for under $500.  I would whole heartedly recommend the hardware, but just be aware that it would probably take something like CQC to really bring everything together (the B&K system, the surround sound receivers, ability to control the system without keypads through an IR system, etc, etc).  So the final cost can grow  much higher than just the cost of a B&K receiver.

I'll add since I looked into a lot of these systems is that B&K, before being purchased by ATI, had a very good reputation.  However, I did read that some B&K amps did have some issues with older amps needing some repairs.  If you're thinking of purchasing B&K, I'd at least look into what I read about their reliability.  If I remember correctly, there was an issue with caps or something but the build quality overall is very good with B&K.

Thanks guys,
so for a DIY multi zone, other than sonos and airplay, are you all still using / recommending going the matrix route?
 
You've mentioned the CT6xxx which are less than $500 on ebay these days, but I wonder would a straight forward matrix or controller be a better bet such as an autopatch or extron second had or even a new HTD MC66, and then combine it with a new amp, say from HTD/Dayton/Audio source AMP-100 or such?
 
Is seems the only way to really integrate streaming services with local playback and multi zone (outside of multiple sonos units and using their app) is with a HA front end, such as CQC, mainlobby, Homeseer,  and a matrix, would that be correct?
 
Thaks
derek