Smartbulb phenomenon

A

ano

Senior Member
With the growing number of "Smartbulbs" appearing almost daily, it seems like there should be area or topic just for these bulbs. 
 
First there was the Philips Hue http://meethue.com/
And then the LIFX http://lifx.co/
And the Lumen http://www.amazon.com/Lumen-Enabled-Smart-Bulb-Versifli/dp/B00GXT2K8M
 
on Friday's Sharktank show, Mark Cuban invested a sizable amount in a company called iLumi http://www.ilumi.co  (I really liked the part where they said they "invented" the bulb.  SURE they did.
 
And there are even controllers for these bulbs in the works https://getgoldee.com/
 
We are quickly approaching the day where to automate lights you just use "smartbulbs" and wall switches just control these bulbs.  I have yet to see a wall switch smartbulb controller, but they have to be in the works.
 
 
 
If you include non-colored bulbs, first there was the insteon bulb. And some of the most affordable are the TCP bulbs. Centralite has shown a zigbee switch product.
 
the ONLY value I see in smartbulbs for a true connected home is if color comes into play; otherwise it's a way to rig up some table lamps to do a few cool effect in place of what most of us with lighting automation can already do.
 
I'm personally only really interested in the RGB bulbs - trying to figure out the best one to do as a replacement for my kids' table lamps so I can simulate sunset/sunrise in their rooms and automatically dim throughout the night... I've seen this whole series of Chinese bulbs selling under the names LimitlessLED/MiLight/Easybulb that all appear to be the same basic thing and do have a plugin available in homeseer.  The price sure is better than the Hue, but the Hue has such broader support, including instant effectiveness via IFTTT if needed so they work the day I buy them.
 
Anyone have any experience with the ones I listed above that can speak to their quality and effectiveness?  Can things be scheduled outside of something like HomeSeer to automatically take effect at different times of day?
 
ano said:
on Friday's Sharktank show, Mark Cuban invested a sizable amount in a company called iLumi http://www.ilumi.co  (I really liked the part where they said they "invented" the bulb.  SURE they did.
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I was watching this with my wife and said how comical it was going to be because the product already exists.  Phillips already has a product in the market and these guys said they filed for a patent.
 
Of course I was amazed when Cuban dropped some change to it. Of course the people on that show can't know all the competition of every product brought to them, but no one seemed to really ask and press them on it. I doubt if Cuban knew Phillips was in the game that he would have invested. I didn't see anything they had that made them any better and they certainly won't have the economies of scale that Phillips does.
 
I was literally flabbergasted. But on the one hand I guess it shows it's still a niche market because if everyone knew about it, it would be mainstream.
 
Heh - had to hit up Hulu to watch that episode of Shark Tank.  I'm actually quite surprised by how much they were offered!
 
jdale said:
That's quite interesting. Without switches, these seem like novelty products.

Of course, if you're replacing the switch anyway, why do you need a smart bulb in the first place?
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Because dimming leds at the switch is ineffective and inefficient.
 
Gatoreye said:
I was watching this with my wife and said how comical it was going to be because the product already exists.  Phillips already has a product in the market and these guys said they filed for a patent.
 
Of course I was amazed when Cuban dropped some change to it. Of course the people on that show can't know all the competition of every product brought to them, but no one seemed to really ask and press them on it. I doubt if Cuban knew Phillips was in the game that he would have invested. I didn't see anything they had that made them any better and they certainly won't have the economies of scale that Phillips does.
 
I was literally flabbergasted. But on the one hand I guess it shows it's still a niche market because if everyone knew about it, it would be mainstream.
Click to expand...
It was pretty amusing. All I can guess is that its a rule of the show that the "sharks" don't get a chance to research products before investing, because this is much more an "entertainment" show than a real "investing" show. I have heard many of the "sharks" say they typically lose more money than they make on many of these deals. The only thing that really helps these companies is all the publicity they get from being on the show, even if nobody invests. 15 minutes of fame, I guess.
 
I wasn't convinced initially, but I do think there is something to the smartbulb trend over smart switches. First, there is color, which a switch can't produce. If not full color, than at least color temp which it great to be able to change on the fly. Second is dimming. When the dimmer is in the bulb, you should have smoother diming, and a bulb dimmed to 28% should be EXACTLY 28% not kinda like as is true today with bulb/dimmer combinations. Third, switches no longer need to handle a load, so they can be cheaper, and one switch can now control MANY lights, unlike the current, one switch, one set of bulbs combination. Finally, smartbulbs let you easier control bulbs in lamps. Hooking up a lamp to a switch controlled outlet is not the best idea. Smartbulbs eliminate that problem.
 
az1324 said:
Because dimming leds at the switch is ineffective and inefficient.
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I agree. I know in my home I have many 600W+ dimmers controlling one or two 9W bulbs. No wonder they don't dim good. If the dimmer is in the bulb, it can be sized perfectly to the load.
 
ano said:
I agree. I know in my home I have many 600W+ dimmers controlling one or two 9W bulbs. No wonder they don't dim good. If the dimmer is in the bulb, it can be sized perfectly to the load.
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I think the biggest problem is how the lighting is setup.  So if you have the LED dimming at the bulb hooked up to a lamp.  It means you can only control the lamp via app or the lamp directly but it won't operate under both.  So if you switched the lamp off, you can't turn it on via app, and if you turn the light bulb off via app, you can't turn it on manually.  Same goes with lighting connected directly to a switch.  There really has to be a better way to do this but as of now, it's not well thought out yet.
 
i have 5 of the hue bulbs that i am using with vera. I have a controller switch sitting on my counter that i need to install this week so turning the light off at the switch is not a problem.  if it works well ill be replacing a few more switches but at $60 a bulb and $40 a switch it gets expensive pretty quick.  the bulbs work pretty well with vera. there are plugins to do the slow dimming and fading that work2play is looking for I think but i have not gotten around to trying them since the weather has just broken here.
 
NomisR said:
I think the biggest problem is how the lighting is setup.  So if you have the LED dimming at the bulb hooked up to a lamp.  It means you can only control the lamp via app or the lamp directly but it won't operate under both.  So if you switched the lamp off, you can't turn it on via app, and if you turn the light bulb off via app, you can't turn it on manually.  Same goes with lighting connected directly to a switch.  There really has to be a better way to do this but as of now, it's not well thought out yet.
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How the lamp connects really depends upon the technology used, so I don't think you can make a blanket statement that a lamp can only connect to one controller at a time. My LIFX bulbs which communicate via Wi-Fi to the outside world can communicate to multiple controllers.
 
Also we are starting to see devices like this: http://www.cnet.com/products/philips-hue-tap/   This controller uses no power so you could stick it on the wall where you want, move it when you want, etc. and still use a home controller to control your lamp, or a phone. This is the direction lighting control is going.
 
This seems to still be pricey though. Even a Ra2 setup from a good pricing dealer may be cheaper; 1 LED switch at $120, Main repeater at $350, and bulbs at $10-15 seems that in the long term after buying the bulbs and continuing to add the switches, it can't be a lot more. Maybe not, but $40-60 per bulb seems VERY pricey. Maybe my math isn't right here.
 
I think it depends a lot on how your home is lit.  In my house, there are no table lamps except in the kids' rooms - everything else is a ceiling fixture - recessed or surface mount - controlled by a switch already, so there's absolutely no point in getting control at the bulb level.  That said, plenty of people live in homes where the primary source of light is lamps - bedside, table, etc - so there's plenty to be automated.  Plus of course there are plenty of people to buy into the novelty - think of dorm rooms or small apartments or flats - people in rentals who don't want to touch the wiring, etc - I could see them going for it for a couple lamps.
 
But yeah - I'm sure there are well over 100 bulbs in my house - no way I'm paying $50/bulb!
 
Somewhere in the future we'll start hardwiring our lighting circuits and using switches that communicate with the bulbs rather than mechanically switching power - but I don't know how far out that is, or which technology we'll be using at that point... it seems to me that counting on Wifi is unrealistic, as that requires a knowledge of networking that the average homeowner will never posess, and no lightbulb company wants to do that level of networking tech support just to get lights working.
 
Maybe this will be the next big service offered by Geek Squad - they can hook up your new router AND program your lights for you!  Hopefully they'd be more up-to-code with that than they are their TV Installation services where they often put TV power cords inside the walls...
 
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