System for new house

Closing on new house build in a few weeks and I'm looking for advice on security/automation.  The builder did a free pre-wire consisting of sensors on all the windows and doors (not garage doors) and 3 keypad wires all running to a box in the laundry room.  I'm going to pick it up from here. I've pretty much decided that I want an ELK M1 based system.  We had monitoring previously with Alarm Relay and I'm planning on continuing that relationship.  I'm planning on starting with just basic security and adding automation features later, which is why the ELK's expandability is attractive for me.
 
to start with:
 

• no landline so cell connection to AlarmRelay for monitoring
• use existing hardwired sensors, 1 zone per window/door (I think some might be grouped because they are right next to each other)
• use Android or IPhone as a remote keypad (turn on/off alarm)
• text alerts to phone if alarm goes off (or notify in an app)
• a couple key fobs to give to house sitters so I don't have to manage entry codes for them

In the future:

• be able to check the status of the garage doors and close them remotely
• be able to check the status of door locks and lock them remotely
• automatically turn some lights on when alarm is disarmed
• turn lights on and off remotely
• remotely control thermostat
• monitoring of smoke detectors
• cameras at driveway and front door

With that in mind, here's what I'm thinking for my initial parts list:

1. ELK-M1GK kit
2. 3 ELK-6010 key fobs
3. ELK-M1XEP ethernet interface
4. HAI C3 GSM communicator

Do I need the 2 way wireless transceiver for the key fobs to work or do they talk to the keypad?  Does this make sense?  Am I missing something?
 

bwarren said:

Do I need the 2 way wireless transceiver for the key fobs to work or do they talk to the keypad?  Does this make sense?  Am I missing something?

Click to expand...

 
Yes, you will need the Elk M1XRFTW two-way wireless receiver/transmitter for the 6010 keyfobs to work.

I've heard that the Honeywell wireless devices work a lot better than the ELK ones.  Would I be better off going that route?  I'll probably add more wireless sensors at some point.

The Elk two-way wireless is still pretty new.  I haven't read of anyone who actually has tested Elk vs Honeywell or GE wireless side by side, so it is hard to say that one is better than the other.  The design of the two-way system for the Elk would seem to have some advantages over one-way wireless.  For example, the Elk keyfobs can show you status, which is something the GE and Honeywell keyfobs can't do.
 
On the other hand, at least for now, there is a much larger variety of wireless sensors for GE and Honeywell.  The Elk two-way wireless is fairly new, and Elk is slowly adding new sensors to their lineup.  But when it will equal the variety of the other brands is anyone's guess.  It'll probably be a while.
 
I would choose between Elk, GE or Honeywell based on what functions and sensors you think you will need today as well as down the road.  I think all of them can perform well.

You specifically mentioned keyfobs - and while there are keyfobs for GE and I'm sure Honeywell/Ademco, the Elk's are two-way.  That alone would likely steer me down that path.
 
Some places sell an M1GSYS4TW kit that includes the Elk, 2-way wireless and a keyfob plus 14" enclosure and the starter stuff.
 
A few changes I make... I don't like a central speaker; instead I put SP12 speakers behind each keypad - but you need 18/2 wire for that.  I put keypads at all main entrances and in the master bedroom.  I'd love a little KPAS by my rear slider too, but that's too much for a retrofit.
 
In lieu of keyfobs, you can also do HID readers so they just swipe a key or card by the keypad for entry - several of the keypads support an internal reader or you can add external readers to any of the keypads.  
 
Everything on your list I have today - and it's pretty simple.  The thing to think about is if you have enough inputs and outputs and where you need them.  During build, you'll want more wires run than currently spec'd.  For instance, at keypad locations do Cat5/6 and 18/4.  You'll need 22/2 or better to the doorbell if you want that tied in.  For the garage, you need wire to the garage doors - what I personally have done is take the 14" can that comes in the kit and use that as a sub-panel in the garage - then use a larger panel in the house.  The sub-panel has input and output expanders and that's where I wire the garage door contact sensors and control wires for the door; I also wire the irrigation sprinklers there and use the M1 to handle my irrigation - so when I'm working on the system, I can kick on any zone via my phone.
 
Depending on which keypad - if you get the KP2, there's a flush-mount box that looks much better and still allows for the SP12 speaker behind it.  I like that combination a lot.
 
Best I can say is nail the wiring now; the M1 will take you 2-3 orders to get everything you need as you start to understand it all more.

You say that some zones MAY be linked together. I'd verify that - the Elk has 16 zones on-board, after that you'll need a M1XIN to add another 16 zones. 
 
How are the keypad locations wired? 22/4? Cat5?
 
As mentioned above about the speakers... Do you want audible messages to be spoken at the keypad locations? If so, SP-12F speakers fit nicely behind the KP2's, but should also be wired with some 18/2.
 
What enclosure will you use? The 14" Elk can? Or the 28" model? (I'd highly suggest the larger 28", particularly for expansion). If I had the space, I probably would have used a 42", or as mentioned above, split out to a second panel; this is mainly for automation expandability.
 
Other considerations

• Data Bus Hub (M1DBH)
• Battery shelf (SWS)
• Glides (SWG), particularly for XEP
• Surge Supressor (950)

Worth noting, I recently did an install with the Elk 2-way sensors and had no issues, but I really haven't done much with Honeywell/GE sensors to compare either. But based on my experience I wouldn't have any issue using/suggesting the Elk 2-way sensors again.

Most likely he's going to need a retrofit hub for the keypads. Usually not enough conductors run on 90% of the installs/prewires to the keypads to facilitate an RS 485 bus.
 
I'm probably the minority but I'd stay away from Elk's RF. Too few out there, too little variety and doubtful it'll really take off to the level (or cost) of Honeywell or GE. Downside is if they sunset the firmware like they did with the Caddx/GE receivers. IMHO, the only sales point I've seen so far is the smoke detectors, however they're still not compliant for replacing mandated units. Unfortunately it seems more like a sales buzzword and point no different than DMP and their 2 way wireless (Innovonics OEM) and the performance is really the same as standard in 99% of the installs out there that aren't pushed to the bleeding edge of hardware capabilities. I've yet to see DMP's batteries really last a significant amount longer or transmission quality exceeding the performance of normal RF.
 
While 2 way fobs are nice, I've just ended up installing other components on client's jobs to facilitate the same. Not as sexy, but an LED in the soffit or other rule based action is usually sufficient to fit the bill.

The wiring is done and it's drywalled and painted, I get what I get at this point.
 
I think the keypad wires are cat 5.  They look a lot like cat5 anyway.  They put a keypad wire at the garage entry, master bedroom, and in the kitchen (they didn't ask, and I would have wanted it by the front door instead, but too late now).  I may only go with one keypad and cover up the other 2 wires for now.
 
I only care about speakers for the alarm.  The system at our old house talked and it got annoying so we turned it off.
 
I had the builder put in a 42 inch enclosure in the laundry room which has all the low voltage wiring.  I'm anticipating that there's enough room in there for the alarm gear.  That's where all the sensor and keypad wires go.  I'll also be putting the wireless router and ethernet switch in there (all rooms have ethernet).
 
How would you hook the panel in the garage to the main panel in the house?  Run wires in the attic?  It's a single story so that wouldn't be much trouble but I was just figuring using wireless sensors for the garage doors. 
 
I hadn't considered adding the irrigation to the system.  I was just planning on getting a simple timer to run the sprinklers.  I'm in Phoenix so the watering schedule doesn't change a whole lot.
 
"Most likely he's going to need a retrofit hub for the keypads. Usually not enough conductors run on 90% of the installs/prewires to the keypads to facilitate an RS 485 bus."
 
I looked up RS-485 on wikipedia and it made me hurt.  Is this why I would need the data bus hub expansion?

Instead of researching RS-485, check these instead:
 
Standard Databus Hub (M1DBH): http://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/elk-m1dbh-m1-data-bus-hub
 
Retrofit Databus Hub (M1DBHR): http://www.elkproducts.com/product-catalog/elk-m1dbhr-m1-data-bus-hub-for-retrofit

If you are going to have only one keypad and one zone expander (e.g. the wireless interface), then those two can easily connect to the M1 data bus and you don't need either version of the data bus hub.
 
If you have Cat5 to each keypad location and each cable is wired as a home run back to the M1 panel location, then the M1DBH makes it easy to connect everything together when there are more than two items on the data bus.
 
If there is only 4-conductor cable running to the keypads, AND you also have more than 2 keypads/expanders, then the M1DBHR makes the wiring easier.

My subpanel in the garage is connected by just a single cat5 - from there I can run any number of databus devices.
 
A good thing to know if you want wireless for the garage door sensors - you can still use whatever traditional hardwired-style sensor for the garage that works best - there's another thread happening right now talking about sensor styles for the garage...  with any of the wireless receivers, there are options that will accept external contacts - so you can use the garage-door sensor into one of those to make it wireless.
 
The main thing to understand with the databus is that it uses 4 conductors (two power and two data) and is really intended as a daisy-chain - where the data flows in one direction and doesn't go back and forth on the same wire.  When it gets to the end it hits a termination resistor that stops it from bouncing back.  In lieu of a big loop, usually another pair is added to act as the return path which then passes on to the next leg (for homerun wiring) which is why you need 6 conductors.  the M1 allows for 2 legs natively.  The DBHR gives you more - up to 8 IIRC; the DBH just simplifies the wiring if you don't want to deal with the loop wiring.
 
Our house does minimal talking - only when you're interacting with the system or very few other alerts.  I hate talking to systems and hearing them talk - in fact I'd rather have distinct beeps for each entrance than a voice announcing it - but there are enough instances where it would talk that I like to make sure it's heard well and clearly.
 
And with keypads - I can safely see we use all three of ours quite regularly.  We keep our cars in the garage normally so that's the keypad we use when we come and go, but on occasion we'll forget something and come in the front door because it's faster; also houseguests and house sitters come/go via the front door; plus if someone rings the bell and the system is armed, I see the red light as I approach the door so I don't set it off and have to run across the house.  The one in the master is used for arming and disarming at night.  We also now have indoor-only cats as well as young kids who do dumb things - so we also employ the keypad beeps if any entrance is left open too long - and all of them beep.  Just 2 weeks ago, we were all outside except my wife who was sleeping upstairs - but the beeping of the upstairs keypad woke her and she came down to find us in one side of the yard where we couldn't see the door, and the cat outside and the door wide open - so that's been a great feature.  I've also come down about 4 separate times lately thanks to those chimes to see the exact same thing.
 
We also have no idea what stage of life you're in - family, kids, etc - I know I use many more features today now that I have kids than I ever would've when it was just my wife and I; and before the wife I would've used nothing but a basic alarm with the ability to remotely check status of the alarm and the garage doors.  Things change in life - a lot.  So it's also good to think about the future.  Once the kids are past the age where I need to catch them sneaking out in the middle of the night, I'll probably go back to the same basic security again - but for now I like the additional benefits I get.

The 3rd keypad wire was put in the kitchen, which is in the back of the house.  The front door is about 40 feet away.  It's really a dumb location.  I'm mad that I didn't catch it and make them move it.
 
The kids are grown and moved out so we're looking for just basic security with the ability to add on lights and locks automation later.  In fact we're probably going to wait on the keyfob remotes and just go with the keypad.  That puts me down to just the M1, keypad, and C3 for now.  I may also skip the XEP to start since it's not a necessity.
 
If I want more speakers I'll need to run the wires, right?  They didn't run wire anywhere for it so I'm thinking I'll be stuck with the one speaker above the box in the laundry room.

On the topic of Elk two way wireless.....
 
I just installed the Elk wireless in my M1 system. My basement and garages are unfinished so relatively easy to wire and I only need a few wireless sensors which are all available from elk right now. I like the benefits of two-way (keyfob indicator, extended battery life, communications acknowledgement) and have hope for some interesting devices coming  out in the future. I hope Elk will put the wireless outputs to good use in the future like having sensors that communicate with each other. One example of this is the  2-way smoke detector. When one detects smoke it signals the rest of the smoke alarms to make noise or at least that's how I understand it to work.
 
The Elk suits my needs now and I am hoping for good things in the future but if I had need for a great number of wireless devices or was doing a complete wireless system I would have gone with a different old school wireless system.
 
Mike.

@bwarren - some people have had success using the remaining wire pair that goes to the keypad to locate an SP12 speaker there.  The wiring slightly more creative but it's not difficult.  I'd add the XEP - otherwise your programming options are either via the keypad or using a serial port connection to a PC.  Just having the XEP instantly gives you the smartphone apps, programming via PC from anywhere, the built-in webpage and the free M1ToGo app - all well worth it in my opinion.
 
@mikefamig - I'm hopeful for Elk's 2-way products - in fact, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if we see wireless outputs some day in the future - outputs we could wirelessly put at our garage door heads and water valves.  The technology seems to be there - it's just a matter of when they get to those products at this point - or at least that's my speculation.

I'll keep following this topic to get some ideas from you guys. Thanks for letting me bwarren.