Wall Wart continuity between hot and neutral

heffneil

Active Member
Hey guys I just built a big metal building and recently we noticed we keep getting shocked every time we touch the metal.  I suspected a leak or something shorted.  We went through the panel and thought it was a connector that screwed things up but we noticed continuity between hot and neutral.  We took it all apart and then we realized it was when the transformer was plugged in!  So I went and got another one but before we used it I tested between the two posts on the high side and it read continuity.  I went in my guest house where I have another one of these and it TOO was showing continuity.  Is that right or do I have three bad wall worts?!
 
Transformers will have continuity across both terminals because of the windings and the output should be floating.
 
Sounds like the building is connected to EG.
 
I'm not following your troubleshooting steps. What is the voltage between the neutral and EG on the new structure?
 
Here had an issue in a home in the 1980's with the detached garage.  One day in the garage dropped the lawn mower metal hook against a conduit and there was a puddle of water before it.  I saw a spark.  Using a VOM noticed AC voltage on the conduit pipe to earth ground.
 
I had used PVC piping for the electric to the home fuse panel and a tree root had grown through it.
 
I had to dug underneath a new cement patio to find the shorted power lines.
 
Thinking more in terms like what Del mentions above.
 
Somewhere in your wiring you have short between hot and neutral or hot and earth ground?
 
This can be something as simple as miswired switch terminals or a bad GCFI outlet (or miswiring of one).
 
Recently replaced the GCFI outlet on the deck.  Never saw one go bad before.  It is outdoors with a flip top on it.
I removed the assembly and went to using a newer plastic clear cover that snaps in place.  Much bigger footprint than the old flip top.
 
0 volts between neutral and ground. What happens is voltage builds and then you'll get a static shock. It's very odd. We tested shirts between neutral and hot and found that circuit shorted but it was the transformer. So normal 24 v transformers on the high side will show continuity between the two prongs?

Still unclear what's happening here. We tried turning off some circuits to see if it went away. Thought we had it on the transformer. Might be the AC that's the newest addition to the electrical system
 
Although you might measure 0V between the neutral and earth ground conductors at the panel, it's possible that you don't have a solid connection to the real earth ground.  Have you checked that?
 
It's interesting because the building has its own ground via a bar in the slab and we ran a ground from the main panel with the feeders.
 
Have you tried turning off breakers to see if the shocks go away?  If it does, then turn them on one by one until the problem returns. Then you'll know which circuit is causing the problem.  At that point, I'd then suspect some kind of short between the wiring for the circuit and the building.  Perhaps a nail or screw that goes through the building metal pierced the cable.
 
Hard to explain the static-like nature of the shocks.
 
The system transformer is a floating ground AC circuit. You'll read continuity between both sides of the plug, remember it's a wire coil on the secondary side of the transformer, same as primary.
 
Check for voltage between your feeder and building grounds?
 
Or maybe you have a bad earth ground. Where does the 'rod in the slab' go? Generally code will require a copper rod driven in to the ground of a specified length (can be 10' and up depending on the region and type of soil/local ground conductivity.)
 
cobra said:
Or maybe you have a bad earth ground. Where does the 'rod in the slab' go? Generally code will require a copper rod driven in to the ground of a specified length (can be 10' and up depending on the region and type of soil/local ground conductivity.)
 
 
The electrical code allows using the metal rebar in a building's slab as an earth ground, without the need for the traditional ground rod driven into the earth.  This is known as an "Ufer ground."  I believe this is what the OP says he has.   There could still be a bad connection, as you point out.
 
RAL said:
 
 
The electrical code allows using the metal rebar in a building's slab as an earth ground, without the need for the traditional ground rod driven into the earth.  This is known as an "Ufer ground."  I believe this is what the OP says he has.   There could still be a bad connection, as you point out.
Thanks for the link, I was not aware of this option in the NEC. Does rebar meet the requirement? I note that they specify metal for the ground rod in concrete, but that it must be coated with an electrically conductive material as well.
 
Section 250.52(A)(3) of the NEC says:
 

(3) Concrete-Encased Electrode. A concrete-encased electrode shall consist of at least 6.0 m (20 ft) of either
(1) or (2):

(1) One or more bare or zinc galvanized or other electrically conductive coated steel reinforcing bars or rods of
not less than 13 mm ( 1/2 in.) in diameter, installed in one continuous 6.0 m (20 ft) length, or if in multiple
pieces connected together by the usual steel tie wires, exothermic welding, welding, or other effective means
to create a 6.0 m (20 ft) or greater length; or

(2) Bare copper conductor not smaller than 4 AWG
 
I interpret "one or more bare ... reinforcing bars" to mean untreated rebar (with no epoxy based anti-corrosion coating) would be acceptable.
 
One additional caveat: the concrete needs to be in direct contact with the earth.  That means there can't be a vapor barrier between the concrete slab and the ground below.
 
Well the rod is not 20 feet long! I've seen the rods that are bare copper and im not sure they are 20 feet.  It "seems" like the problem is gone and all I did was replace the Elk 24v with a smaller older transformer.  I will get a couple new ones from ADI tomorrow when I get up there.
 
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