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FierX Model g-18 AC smokes & Elk m1


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#1 benjmurray

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 01:42 PM

I am finished wiring all my contacts and it's time to take the ELK off the bench and into production. In order to do this I need smokes. Currently I have FireX G18 smokes wired. There is one close to where I will be placing my elk box.

My Question is this. Can I use these smokes? If not can I replace them with something that will allow me to use the same wiring?

Thanks All

Ben :blink:

Edited by benjmurray, 01 October 2006 - 01:42 PM.


#2 WayneW

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 01:54 PM

if it works on the bench, it should work in production. Are these 2 or 4 wire smokes? 4 wire smokes are universal.

#3 benjmurray

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 02:02 PM

Sorry for the confusion, I have the security side on the bench. Now I need to tackle the smokes. I want to integrate the ac smokes the builder places in the house.

These have 3 wires Red Black yellow
Ben :blink:

Edited by benjmurray, 01 October 2006 - 02:02 PM.


#4 Spanky

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 03:38 PM

You will need 12V System Smoke detectors for the M1. The three wires on your smokes are to tie together all the AC smoke detectors so if any one goes into alarm, they all will. The wires are not to tie into a fire alarm control. :blink:

#5 Steve

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 04:08 PM

In order to use 120V AC smokes, you need to replace at least 1 of them with a model that contains a relay contact to trigger the Elk. The Firex does not appear to have that. IMHO I think the best thing is to just add the proper 12V devices in addition to the existing 120V ones.

#6 benjmurray

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 04:21 PM

Firex does have a relay of sorts.

http://www.electrics...smalac499f.html

Now I need to see how to create a trigger.

Any Ideas?

#7 benjmurray

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 04:27 PM

Ok here is the wiring of the relay. How would I wire this to the elk to cause a Fire alarm ?


http://www.galesburg...dule-p-749.html

#8 Steve

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 05:58 PM

Here is a better image...

DISCLAIMER: While this would probably work, it is not the same as a detector with form c relay built in. According to the docs, it will NOT work in a power outage condition even if the detector has a battery backup and additionally, the manufacturer does not recommend using it with security panels, probably because of the AC requirement.

All that said, I think you would just configure any zone on the M1 as a normally closed zone, then connect the GRAY wire from the relay to the M1 zone NEG terminal and then connect the RED wire from the relay to the M1 zone terminal.

I believe in this way when the smoke detector goes off it will open the circuit which will violate the zone on the M1. I'm sure some of the pros will verify this for me...

fyi - I still believe additional 12V units are best, if nothing else the smokes will continue to work (and be monitored) in a power outage condition.

#9 benjmurray

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 06:20 PM

I can get 12 volt smokes on the second floor and the basement, however I have no access to the first floor. I'll place 12 volt units there and allow the 120 volt units to catch anything on the first floor. Thanks for the input.

Ben

#10 benjmurray

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 07:11 PM

Ok one more question.. Do you guys recommend 2 or 4 wire smokes? Also what brand?

Thanks Ben

#11 Steve

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Posted 01 October 2006 - 08:57 PM

That's been discussed around here alot, Search around and you will find alot of info. Major difference is 2 wire only works on zone 16 and they are all wired together in series. 4 wires are home run and can go on any zone. 2 wire you need a reversing relay to make them all sound together (or just depend on you sirens or add some piezos), 4 wire you need end of line relays for supervision. If you have to have all your smokes zoned, then go with 4 wire.

The advantage to 4 wire is you can tell instantly what smoke tripped which may help you in a large house. My theory is if the smokes trigger I am getting out first, then when it is safe and you come back in you can always look at the 2 wires and see which one tripped.

I usually use System Sensor 2WTA, but DSC makes a similar one that is less expensive. Automated Outlet stocks them all.




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