360-deg PIR / occupancy sensor

[drvnbysound]

I am curious to find out if anyone knows of good options for ceiling mounted PIRs?
 
I've seen some at my day job for a while now (picture below) and have wondered for some time about getting some for occupancy use for my HA lighting; that's how they are being used above. After 10-15 min of inactivity the light in the room/office is turned off. Sitting around 15-ft away from the sensor, I can wave my hand and it picks up and turns the light back on - pretty sensitive.
 
I find that my wife tends to leave lights on fairly often, so I am looking for sensors to put in place so that HA rules can turn them off... looking for recommendations (doesn't necessarily have to be ceiling mounted, but that would be easier for installation).

 

[pete_c]

drvnbysound,
 
The pictured one appears to be similiar to the ones that I utilize here.  That said though I purchased a "few" of these in a bulk purchase a few years back.
 
I use them as occupancy sensors. They were easy to install on the second floor but more difficult for me to install on the first floor.
 
Mine are labeled Rockonet.  Here is a link to them on Amazon.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Rokonet-DualTech-Degree-Ceiling-Motion/dp/B000GLW2VI/ref=pd_sxp_f_pt
 
I got a deal of a case of these for around the price of one.  They do stand out a bit and not really discrete. 
 
They are about the same diameter as the LV smokes I installed a few years back. 

 

[Del91574]

The key is not using security motions for occupancy. The sensitivity isn't generally going to function as you would want it to do in an occupancy sensing application.
 
You can attempt to use them, however I believe the false unoccupied triggers would probably put the WAF at a low.
 
They do make lightswitches that have occupancy sensors or timers built in, while not elegant, that could be an easy fix for the worst offenders....like closets etc.

 

[wuench]

Also some occupancy sensors have microphones to pick up people that are not in the line of sight.  So you may want to consider whether you want that feature or not.  Might be good in a living room or closet, but not so much in a bathroom where fan noise would trigger it.  The occupancy sensors usually have a built in timer controlled via internal dip switches, I have not found one that doesn't.  Be very careful about the voltage requirements when shopping for occupancy sensors, make sure it is a 12v low voltage sensor if you don't want it to control the light directly.   For example the Leviton ones require a power pack to control the light and are low voltage, but require 24V not 12V.  And don't alarm on these, occupancy sensors are too sensitive and will tend to false to much for security use.
 
An example of a low voltage occupancy (not security motion) sensor without microphone is the Sensorswitch CM9

 

[pete_c]

Yup; here using the Rockonet's as occupancy sensors. 

 

[wuench]

I am using my PIRs dual use security and occupancy but I an generally not happy with the response time for occupancy.  Some of the delay is certainly in the controller and Insteon, but I have noticed that there is a detectable delay of PIR LED activity before I hear the relay trigger.  Most of my PIRs are dual microwave/PIR, so I suspect the internal delay is probably the false detection logic.  
 
I have plans to try a Sensorswitch replacementj.

 

[Del91574]

That's the inherent issue using security PIR's for occupancy. What is desirable for occupancy doesn't work so hot for security, vice versa.
 
Most PIR's have a pulse count that must be met before they generate any output...same goes with DT's. In the case of the DT's, are you noticing which technology is tripping first prior to the relay going?
 
I'm actually looking at one of those sensorswitches in the room I'm working in right now.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I've had good results using the Sensor Switch CM-9.
I use them in the laundry room, garage, and walk-in closets.
 
I use the Dual Tech model in the garage since it is a larger area and there are times I am sitting at a bench working and not moving much.
 
I also use one of my security motion sensors to activate lights in a little used room. 
The response lags quite a bit from the occupancy sensors. 
It's bothersome enough that I wouldnt use them in the daily occupied areas.

 

[Monk]

+1 on the CM-9. I have them scattered about - 12v & works nicely with the Elk-M1G. I use them only for occupancy, and they are super sensitive + no annoying relay noises.

 

[drvnbysound]

Realize that I didn't mention using the sensors for turning the lights on; I understand that there may be delays when using them in this fashion. I'm only interested in them for turning lights off.
 
If light X is turned on, and no motion is detected on motion Y for 10 minutes... turn the light off.
 
That said, the one I took a picture of above is used for standard occupancy and seems to work very reliably. The lights are turned on before I'm able to fully open the door to the room.

 

[pete_c]

Here last year installed a small wall mounted PIR on one wall in the garage. 
 
Its currently utilized to make it daylight inside of the garage when entering or exiting. 
 
That said I have noticed with the high heat lately and the garage getting warm; it doesn't function that well.

 

[drvnbysound]

Pete, thanks for the comment.
 
I'm mainly looking a few key areas for now... kitchen, MBR, MBA, utility room.

 

[Del91574]

Any PIR that is used for an access control setup (REX) is also generally functional for an occupancy application, but again, beware of the dualtec units...we have a site with about 3-400 of them on an access control system (I love when an architect does spec), we're slowly weeding them out because they just don't perform.

 

[drvnbysound]

DEL, I'm not sure I follow your last post regarding PIRs and access control...

 

[TurboSam]

Monk and wuench (and others using the CM-9), I have a couple of questions about how you use the CM-9...and hope this thread is not too old to use.
 
It looks to me like you would need the realy version (CM-9 R) to work with Elk, and that the relay would signal Elk, and then Elk would control the lights...is that right?  I was thinking of doing that and it looks like I could do it without the Sensorswitch powerpak as long as I could get 12V to the sensor and did not want the sensor to control a line load (just Elk via relay).  I couldn't figure out how you would use the Elk without the relay version since then the sensor only controls the line load, but wanted to see if I was missing something...
 
Thanks!