Am I forgetting anything? Review my simple home setup

[ahreno]

Ok, I'm about to purchase a bunch of stuff for my home automation / security setup. I'm starting from scratch and due to a chimney fire I have most of the walls open in my 1930's home. I'm not looking for anything close to a top of the line system but I want to avoid buying junk as well. I would like suggestions for which door / window sensors to buy. Also If i'm overlooking or overdoing anything... feel free to point it out.

Home Automation Controller: Elk (90% sure)
Home Audio: HTD Advanced (6 zone - 8 source with local source on keypads)
Home Automation method: Zwave
Wire: 22/4

Sensors: (these are just my preliminary thoughts, would like advice on what to avoid or look for)
Motion: AL-XP-40 - Aleph XP Series Passive Infrared Motion Detector
Door sensors: SUGGESTIONS?
Window sensors: SUGGESTIONS? Do i need different kinds of sensors for wood or aluminum windows?
Smoke: FSA210BST - DSC Smoke Sensor, 2-Wire Photoelectric, Thermal & Sounder
Glass break: Sentrol 5812NT Series ShatterPro 3


Downstairs (~888 sqft)

Living Room:
Cat5 for main control panel for elk
Door sensor
Motion Sensor facing front door and windows
Glass break sensor
3 zwave light switches (two for living room one for out side)
1 bay window with two opening windows and one bank of 3 windows (I would like to run one 22/4 wire to each of these - I dont need each window to be separately identifiable as open... just if one of the windows in the bank/bay window are open) The bay window is new and aluminum ( I think) and the bank of 3 windows is old and wood
8 cat5 home runs (xbox, xbox360, denon 3808, Home Theater Computer, 4 extras for potential video distribution or IR control)
Ceiling mount Panasonic AE3000u Projector (45' HDMI to receiver, 3 cat5 home runs (potential IR, video distribution or network projector in future though i dont plan to update for YEARS)
14ga in wall speaker wire for 7.1 (front speakers and sub will be on tv stand so aren't run in wall)

Dining Room:
French Doors (2 door sensors?)
one bank of 3 windows (these are old wood windows from 1930 that slide up and have counter weights)
1 zwave light switch
Glass break sensor?
motion sensor facing french doors and kitchen... mounted in corner of room on a wall perpendicular to bank of windows

Kitchen:
One bank of two windows
Keypad for home audio
1 zwave light switch (main lighting)
cat5 for network
cat5 for network for kitchen computer
maybe 2 more home runs of cat5 into a cabinet for future use?

Laundry room:
door sensor (back door)
1 zwave light switch (maybe)
motion sensor
Glass break sensor
3 window sensors These are all new windows that are aluminum (I believe)

Downstairs bedroom
Door switch (theres a door going to the backyard)
glass break sensor?
1 zwave light switch
bank of 3 windows (old wood style)
cat5 for home audio panel
3 cat5 home runs (2 extra one for internet)
smoke detector
speaker cable for in ceiling speakers

Bathroom
window (new style aluminum slider)
cat5 for home adio
speaker cable for in ceiling speakers
one cat5 home run just in case

upstairs
no window sensors
3 zwave lightswitches (one each bedroom for main lights and 1 for stairs landing)
(maybe) 1 more zwave for master bedroom
each of (2) bedrooms will get 3 cat 5 (1 internet & 2 for future), cat5 for home audio panel
motio detector in area where stairs lead to which is between the two bedrooms

 

[IVB]

why no window sensors upstairs? Is there any way short of a ladder to get up there (ie, nearby trees)?

I dunno about eugene oregon, but in the SFBay Area there have been multiple reports of house robberies where trees or scalable sides were used to gain access. Although I suppose you've got that motion detector, that's good.

 

[ahreno]

why no window sensors upstairs? Is there any way short of a ladder to get up there (ie, nearby trees)?

I dunno about eugene oregon, but in the SFBay Area there have been multiple reports of house robberies where trees or scalable sides were used to gain access. Although I suppose you've got that motion detector, that's good.

I suppose i could put in a sensors upstairs... just seemed like more hassle than it's worth. You WOULD need a ladder to get into one of the windows... at that point I think they'd probably just cut my power!

Any suggestions on which sensors to actually use? Comments on rest of my setup?

 

[Monk]

I wire every door / every window. If you think there is no need for 2nd floor sensors, maybe there isn't, but I sure wouldn't state it in a public forum - (yes I am paranoid to a point)

but anyway - having all windows wired is a good quick indicator if all the windows are closed without having to walk room to room. Storm season is coming - good feeling to know you have everything shut simply by looking @ a keypad.

 

[Steve]

Why did you choose ZWave? Have you considered Zigbee based lighting like Jetstream?

 

[ahreno]

Why did you choose ZWave? Have you considered Zigbee based lighting like Jetstream?

I've never heard of zigbee jetstream. Is it better/ cheaper? I'll take a look into it later tonight but if you have any links or info I'd definately read up about it. how is it better than zwave?

 

[beelzerob]

but anyway - having all windows wired is a good quick indicator if all the windows are closed without having to walk room to room. Storm season is coming - good feeling to know you have everything shut simply by looking @ a keypad.

Ya, I agree with that. It'd take much more than a short ladder to get to our 2nd floor, but I've already witnessed how storms can come on suddenly and with horizontal rain force, so it would be nice have a quick reference for which windows are open. I've even considered being able to press a button and have CQC tell me via TTS which windows are open, and as I close it, it goes to the next one, so I don't have to keep consulting a screen. *shrug*

But either way, of ALL the things that would be difficult to do later if you suddenly decided there was a good reason to do so, it'd be windows.
Pre-wiring is ALL about putting in the capability while it's easy to do so.

 

[ahreno]

sounds good. i'll get the upstairs windows wired where i can. any other comments on my setup in terms of wires/sensors?

 

[WSeverino]

ZWave was a smart move in my book! There are more ZWave based products than Zigbee could ever think of. I sell Zigbee based solutions into the OEM relm and I can tell you this much the zigbee alliance can't get out of it's own way!

 

[Digger]

How about a few flood sensors. They are about $10 to $12 each and well worth the investment in my opinion. I like the GRI-2800 2 wire devices with the ELK.

 

[ahreno]

How about a few flood sensors. They are about $10 to $12 each and well worth the investment in my opinion. I like the GRI-2800 2 wire devices with the ELK.

are flood sensors to tell me if it's flooding? where woudl you put them???... i'm not really in an area thats prone to flooding... at all.

 

[beelzerob]

Hehe...if you have internal plumbing, you're vulnerable to flooding!

It's for detecting water leaks before they become problems...such as around water heaters, toilets, under sinks, etc.

For me, I'm only concerned about the basement (though I have no reason to be), so I just put a sensor near the sump pump drain.

 

[Steve]

Why did you choose ZWave? Have you considered Zigbee based lighting like Jetstream?

I've never heard of zigbee jetstream. Is it better/ cheaper? I'll take a look into it later tonight but if you have any links or info I'd definately read up about it. how is it better than zwave?

Zigbee is more the protocol like Zwave. I am not an expert on either so if I am mistaken I am sure someone will correct me. My understanding is that Zigbee is a dynamic mesh network as opposed to being static like ZWave. As an example, lets say you have a Zwave network setup with 4 devices A-B-C-D and say the path from A-D is thru C. If C dies and A is too far too see D on its own then the communication will fail. With Zigbee in the same scenario if C failed then it would dynamically route thru B to get to D (assuming B was also in range of both). This is an extremely simple example but I think it illustrates the point.

As far as pricing I would think they are pretty much in the same ballpark. Many manufactures make Zigbee based devices, but Jetstream is Centralite's implementation. You can read some about it here. The other thing I think is better is the programming and configuration software. With ZWave you have to buy a 3rd party software from ThinkEssentials (much like early on to program Insteon links you had to buy Powerhome) or you need to program with a remote control which imho can be a little clunky. The Jetstream software is very easy to use and powerful. I look at it as Upstart (UPB programming) for Jetstream. The other cool thing about the Jetsream switches is they are field firmware upgradeable, so if there is a bug fix or new feature that does not require hardware, you can just reflash all your switches and not have to change them.

ZWave was a smart move in my book! There are more ZWave based products than Zigbee could ever think of. I sell Zigbee based solutions into the OEM relm and I can tell you this much the zigbee alliance can't get out of it's own way!

I can respect that opinion but I look at it this way. Yes, Zwave does have the advantage that (at least in theory, and mostly in practice) all manufacturers products are interoperable. So, you can build a standalone ZWave network with devices that communicate with each other. And yes, there are alot of choices. But, there are issues too. There are several different hardware devices (some locks come to mind) that don't play nice in a 'standard' ZWave network. So, while interoperability may be the norm, it is not guaranteed (like you have between all the UPB manufacturers). There are many manufacturers of Zigbee based lighting including Crestron, Centralite, Control4 and Colorado Vnet. They all have their separate implementations.

So, all that being said, I feel that if you are using a central controller like the M1 or Omni, or even a software controller, then you basically get interoperability anyway assuming the controller you have supports the different systems. So, as an example, if I use Jetstream, which only talks to a Jetstream network, but I also have say a zigbee Omnistat from HAI, while they will not talk directly to each other like comparable ZWave devices may, they WILL talk to each other through the panel/controller. So I just think as long as you have a decent controller in the mix, it really doesn't matter. You can mix and match all of them, like send a link from a UPB switch to turn on a Jetsream light which in turn switches off a ZWave module.

So, as in anything, they will all have their pros and cons. But for me, being a current UPB user and loving the capability of UpStart, a good piece of configuration software is important to me. And having a dynamic vs static mesh and firmware upgradeable switches make it that much better to me. YMMV and this is not intended to diminish ZWave in any way.

 

[ahreno]

Thanks for your reply... i already have a few pieces of zwave equipment so i'm just going to stick with them. thanks for taking the time to explain it to me though...

 

[WSeverino]

I can respect that opinion but I look at it this way. Yes, Zwave does have the advantage that (at least in theory, and mostly in practice) all manufacturers products are interoperable. So, you can build a standalone ZWave network with devices that communicate with each other. And yes, there are alot of choices. But, there are issues too. There are several different hardware devices (some locks come to mind) that don't play nice in a 'standard' ZWave network. So, while interoperability may be the norm, it is not guaranteed (like you have between all the UPB manufacturers). There are many manufacturers of Zigbee based lighting including Crestron, Centralite, Control4 and Colorado Vnet. They all have their separate implementations.

Steve - I agree with your take also. All technologies have their pro's and con's.

While ZWave is limited to 232 nodes and Zigbee is theoretically 65K nodes, the Zigbee Stack as continued to bloat even further from the first stack. Our first stack used around 40K of FLASH memory, Zigbee Pro is now 112K and this does not even include the AMI (metering) profile. The problem I see with Zigbee is there is so much in-fighting of what should be or not be in the stack that they never get anything done. This is why you have so many products that are interoperable.

You mention the lock issue with the Schlage Link, Schlage tries to lock people in with having to use their bridge. This is not the case though, MiCasaVerde already has support for the Schlage Link in Vera. I have it installed in my house and when I open the door lock, Vera turns on the light in my foyer.