Aux Power Supply - Picture is worth a 1,000 words

[RAL]

Forgive my stupidity...  if I connected all motion/water sensors directly to the power supply what would cause everything to stop working?  Obviously if the power supply went bad it wouldn't matter if I had a PDB or not.  Are you saying that if a motion sensor died or had an issue that everything attached to the power supply would stop working?  Would a rogue motions sensor "fry" my power supply and that's why you guys recommend a PDB so that a rogue motion sensor would only fry a fuse within the PDB and thus only devices on that same PDB output would be down until the fuse is replaced?

 
@zenoparadox gave a nice explanation as to the benefits of having multiple fused outputs from a distribution board. 
 
But to answer your question about whether a bad motion detector could fry the power supply, no that wouldn't happen.  The power supply is designed with short circuit protection and won't blow up if it encounters one. 
 
It's also a good idea to protect the various circuits with a fuse or PTC to reduce/eliminate potential fire hazards due to a bad device or short in the wiring. 

 

[Del91574]

I would typically recommend fuses, although, you should ensure you leave a couple inside the can.
 
PTC's sound great on paper, until you need to start chasing intermittents or anomalies.

 

[kevkmartin]

 
View attachment 7395

Pretty sure those are my cans!

 

[ccmichaelson]

The ULX model does not include a power distribution board, and I would recommend adding one to provide fused or PTC protection to the outputs (e.g. a PD8 or PD8ULCB).
 
The power supplies do not include a line cord.   They can be wired directly to the 120VAC line, or you can add your own line cord if you prefer.  Some older models of these Altronix power supplies have internal step down transformers.  Newer ones operate directly off of 120VAC.

 
I purchased the AL600ULX and need a power line cord.  It looks like Altronix has two models LC1 & LC2...  Any idea which one I would need (manual doesn't say)?  I assume the LC1 (2 wire) would just connect to the P/N terminal and the LC2 (3 plug) would connect to P/N/G terminal?  Yeah, not an electrician so a bit confused about grounding this power supply because apparently the ELK M1 Gold doesn't need to be grounded.  Also, there's a big green ground wire coming out of the power supply unit...  where would/should I connect that?

 

[RAL]

I purchased the AL600ULX and need a power line cord.  It looks like Altronix has two models LC1 & LC2...  Any idea which one I would need (manual doesn't say)?  I assume the LC1 (2 wire) would just connect to the P/N terminal and the LC2 (3 plug) would connect to P/N/G terminal?  Yeah, not an electrician so a bit confused about grounding this power supply because apparently the ELK M1 Gold doesn't need to be grounded.  Also, there's a big green ground wire coming out of the power supply unit...  where would/should I connect that?

 
You should use a 3-wire line cord like the LC2.  Connect the black and white wires to the L and N terminals on the power supply board, and the line cord's ground wire to the green ground wire that is screwed to the can.
 
See the upper left corner of figure 1 in these Altronix instructions.
 
No need to buy a real LC2.  If you have a spare line cord from an old PC line cord around, just cut the end off and use that.  Or buy a 15A 3-prong plug and a few feet of 16 or 18 gauge cable at Home Depot and make your own.

 

[ccmichaelson]

You should use a 3-wire line cord like the LC2.  Connect the black and white wires to the L and N terminals on the power supply board, and the line cord's ground wire to the green ground wire that is screwed to the can.
 
See the upper left corner of figure 1 in these Altronix instructions.
 
No need to buy a real LC2.  If you have a spare line cord from an old PC line cord around, just cut the end off and use that.  Or buy a 15A 3-prong plug and a few feet of 16 or 18 gauge cable at Home Depot and make your own.

 
I do have a spare PC line cord but I looked on the cord and it states 18AWG and the AL600ULX manual says "Use 14 AWG or larger for all power connections" so I wasn't sure if my old PC wire is big enough to power the AL600ULX???

 

[ccmichaelson]

I do have a spare PC line cord but I looked on the cord and it states 18AWG and the AL600ULX manual says "Use 14 AWG or larger for all power connections" so I wasn't sure if my old PC wire is big enough to power the AL600ULX???

 
Then again, the Altronix LC2 (according to website) says it's an 18 AWG...  I guess the word "larger" is confusing which in my mind means "use bigger/fatter wire" - not larger in number.

 

[RAL]

I do have a spare PC line cord but I looked on the cord and it states 18AWG and the AL600ULX manual says "Use 14 AWG or larger for all power connections" so I wasn't sure if my old PC wire is big enough to power the AL600ULX???

 
The AL600 draws a maximum of 3.5A from the AC line.  An 18 AWG line cord is spec'd for 10A, so that gives you plenty of headroom.
 
 

Then again, the Altronix LC2 (according to website) says it's an 18 AWG...  I guess the word "larger" is confusing which in my mind means "use bigger/fatter wire" - not larger in number.

 
I noticed the recommendation for 14 AWG in the AL600ULX instructions.  When "larger" is used in reference to wire gauge, it means larger diameter (heavier) wire and not a larger gauge number.
 
Interestingly, in the instructions for the AL600ULXB, which is the power supply board in the AL600ULX, they say to use 18 AWG or larger for all power connections, including AC input, battery and DC output, not 14 AWG.   So Altronix isn't consistent in their instructions.
 
I have an AL600ULPD8, which is the same as an AL600ULX, but includes a distribution board.  Altronix used 18 AWG for the DC output connection between the power supply board and the distribution board, even though that isn't what the instructions recommend (but is what the AL600ULXB instructions recommend).

 

[ccmichaelson]

@RAL:  Thank you - you are seriously the most helpful person I've meet on this forum (specifically answering questions rather than rambling on about off-topic items)  
 
Last question (I hope), what battery(s) would you recommend I purchase?  According to the ELK draw spreadsheet, I'm going to use approx. 2.2 AMPS (although planning for a little growth so I'd say 3 AMPS.  I plan to put most of the devices requiring power on the power supply (rather than ELK panel).
 
My ELK M1 Gold kit came with a 12V 8AH battery.  I looked at Altronix's website and the only ones that would fit inside the can are the BT124 and BT126.  Perhaps I purchase two of them or I could get the much larger one and install it outside the can.

 

[RAL]

@RAL:  Thank you - you are seriously the most helpful person I've meet on this forum (specifically answering questions rather than rambling on about off-topic items)  
 
Last question (I hope), what battery(s) would you recommend I purchase?  According to the ELK draw spreadsheet, I'm going to use approx. 2.2 AMPS (although planning for a little growth so I'd say 3 AMPS.  I plan to put most of the devices requiring power on the power supply (rather than ELK panel).
 
My ELK M1 Gold kit came with a 12V 8AH battery.  I looked at Altronix's website and the only ones that would fit inside the can are the BT124 and BT126.  Perhaps I purchase two of them or I could get the much larger one and install it outside the can.

 
What size battery you need takes a bit of calculation.
 
You want the aux power supply to have enough battery capacity so that it will last longer than the M1's battery.  The reason is that if the aux supply battery runs down first, the power loss may cause problems for the M1 which will still be running, say if you have keypads or input expanders connected to the aux supply.  Or any devices that will indicate a fault when they loose power.
 
A simple approach to the calculation would be to take the total current draw on the M1's battery, and divide that into the size of the battery in Amp-hours.  For an example, if the Elk current draw spread sheet says that the total current draw is 0.8A, and you have an 8 Ah battery, then it should last about 10 hours. 
 
Next, you need to add up the total current draw on your aux supply.  If it is 2.2 Amps, and you want it to last at least 10 hours, then you need a battery that is at least 22 Ah (2.2A x 10 hours).  
 
You may be able to get additional time out of the battery on either the M1 or the aux supply if you have devices that are normally in standby mode but draw more power when they go active.  I take the standby current into account when I estimate the battery time, but use the maximum current in calculating the total load that the supply may have to deliver. 
 
So, if I have my strobe connected to the aux supply, and it draws 210 mA when active, I use the 210 mA in calculating the total load on the aux supply.  But I subtract that out when estimating the battery run time, since the strobe isn't active except in an alarm condition.
 
You should be able to fit two 1290 batteries (9 Ah each) in the AL600 can.   You would wire them in parallel, and that will give you 18 Ah capacity, which seems like it would get you close to where you want to be.  If you need larger batteries, then you'll need a separate enclosure for the batteries.

That said, going with larger batteries for the aux supply may not be the only solution.  Larger batteries get more expensive.  You may be able to down size the battery on the M1 a bit to the point where it balances properly with the aux batteries. So maybe a 7Ah battery would get you there.  But don't go too small, or you may not have adequate run time.  I wouldn't go below 4 hours and personally prefer to be higher than that.
 
I've had good experiences with Power Sonic batteries, which I've been buying from ecomelectronics on eBay.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380884922880
 
Here's a good reference to the battery sizes available from Power Sonic.  Other manufacturers also make batteries in the same capacities and physical sizes.
 
One thing to watch out for is the battery terminal type when ordering.  Some batteries are available with F1, F2 or NB terminals.  So make sure you know which one you need.  Though if you end up with the wrong one, there are adapters available.

 

[Del91574]

Run the main keypads off the M1. You want those to function even in a catastrophic failure. At least the one by your main entry and MBR.

 

[TurboSam]

I'm also hooking up an aux power supply (AL600ULPD8CB), and I know that I need to bond the negatives from the M1 and the Altronix supply together.  
 
In the Altronix can, each of the eight places on the power distribution board terminal block have a positive and negative screw.  Are the Altronix negatives on the board common to each other?  
 
For now, I intend to bring 4 of the 8 Altronix power outputs into the Elk can to provide power to sensors/zones (as RAL detailed in post 11 above) with the appropriate and separate zone inputs.  Do I need to bring 8 (e.g. 18/8) wires over from the Altronix can or can I bring an 18/5 into the Elk can--four positives to power each of the four sensors/zones and a common negative that ties all 4 sensor negatives together that is, in turn, wired back one of the negative screws on the Altronix distribution board.  
 
I wasn't sure if the negative for each Altronix output on the power distribution board is separate and distinct for purposes of power distribution, and would like to avoid any magic smoke or fried sensors.
 
Thanks!

 

[mikefamig]

I'm also hooking up an aux power supply (AL600ULPD8CB), and I know that I need to bond the negatives from the M1 and the Altronix supply together.  
 
In the Altronix can, each of the eight places on the power distribution board terminal block have a positive and negative screw.  Are the Altronix negatives on the board common to each other?  
 
For now, I intend to bring 4 of the 8 Altronix power outputs into the Elk can to provide power to sensors/zones (as RAL detailed in post 11 above) with the appropriate and separate zone inputs.  Do I need to bring 8 (e.g. 18/8) wires over from the Altronix can or can I bring an 18/5 into the Elk can--four positives to power each of the four sensors/zones and a common negative that ties all 4 sensor negatives together that is, in turn, wired back one of the negative screws on the Altronix distribution board.  
 
I wasn't sure if the negative for each Altronix output on the power distribution board is separate and distinct for purposes of power distribution, and would like to avoid any magic smoke or fried sensors.
 
Thanks!

You can use just one common with four positive leads but theoretically you would be multiplying the load on the common by 4. Or to put it differently, if you had a 0.5 amp load on one positive supply and 0.5 amp load on a second positive supply and they shared a common lead then that common lead would have to carry 1.0 amp load.

 

[RAL]

I'm also hooking up an aux power supply (AL600ULPD8CB), and I know that I need to bond the negatives from the M1 and the Altronix supply together.  
 
In the Altronix can, each of the eight places on the power distribution board terminal block have a positive and negative screw.  Are the Altronix negatives on the board common to each other?  
 
For now, I intend to bring 4 of the 8 Altronix power outputs into the Elk can to provide power to sensors/zones (as RAL detailed in post 11 above) with the appropriate and separate zone inputs.  Do I need to bring 8 (e.g. 18/8) wires over from the Altronix can or can I bring an 18/5 into the Elk can--four positives to power each of the four sensors/zones and a common negative that ties all 4 sensor negatives together that is, in turn, wired back one of the negative screws on the Altronix distribution board.  
 
I wasn't sure if the negative for each Altronix output on the power distribution board is separate and distinct for purposes of power distribution, and would like to avoid any magic smoke or fried sensors.
 
Thanks!

 
All the negative screw terminals in the Altronix are common with each other, so as Mike says, you just need one common wire coming over to the other can.  An 18 AWG wire can carry a load of up to 16 Amps when used for chassis wiring.  So as long as the wire is reasonably short, you should be just fine with that. 

 

[TurboSam]

Thanks, Mike and RAL.
 
So let me take it one step farther (logically if not electrically) -- though I'm not sure I would ever do this.
 
Since the Elk negative will be bonded to the Altronix negative (as per the many threads here), do I even to bring a common over from the Altronix?  
 
I think I read in another thread that all the Elk negatives (for zones and power) shared a common negative, and IF that is the case, would it be possible or advisable just to bring the 4 positives over and tie the power negatives for these 4 zones to the Elk zone negatives (since the Elk negative is bonded to the Altronix)?