Auxiliary Power Supplies

[nemesis]

I just want to apologize ahead of time, I am working my way through a rather large OmniPro II install in my home and am new to security and HA.  I have a large number of power consuming devices and am trying to get a handle on powering all of them.  I have been searching all over this forum and online, but am not getting a grasp on which direction to go.  My system consists of an OmniPro II with two hardwire expansion boards and two expansion enclosures.  One expansion enclosure resides in a detached garage and the sensors for that will not be included in the following list.  I need to power the following:
 
*  6 Consoles and One HAI Wireless Receiver  -  These will be powered by a HAI PowerHub (83A00-2)
*  15 Indoor Wall Motion Detectors  -  345 mA total
*  5 Indoor Ceiling Motion Detectors  -  195 mA total
*  5 Outdoor Motion Detectors  -  310 mA total
*  25 Glass Break Sensors  -  600 mA total
*  14 Smoke Alarms  -  490 mA total
*  6 CO2 Alarms  -  240 mA total
*  2 Temp and Humidity Sensors  -  30mA total
*  5 HAI Thermostats - Unknown Consumption
*  5 Piezo Screamers  -  875 mA total
*  2 ATW Strobe/Screamers - 280mA total
*  Anything else that I forgot.
 
Because of the architectural design of the home, all door sensors will be wireless.  Windows are all casement style and not utilized, so we are foregoing window sensors for right now.  I am struggling with which direction to go for powering the devices.  The Consoles made sense to put on HAI's PowerHub, but I am stuck on the rest.  I have been looking at either the Elk P212S's or the Elk PD9HC's.  That being said, I am open to any other suggestions as well. 
 
The benefits that I see from the P212S is that it has it's own battery backup.  I am unsure though if because of it's built in serial functionality, if it works with other systems (can HAI take advantage of it's battery and power supervision?). 
 
The PD9HC offers individual circuit protection, however no battery backup.  Are installers simply placing this device on a UPS or am I overlooking something.  Thank you for any help you can provide.

 

[gatchel]

The benefit of the P212s is that it can be supervised through the databus on a Elk Panel. It does have relays that allow status to be monitored with any zone on any panel. IMHO you could use any Power Supply with with relay outputs for AC loss and Battery and get the same result without spending the extra cash for the Elk databus functionality while only getting 2 AMPS of current. You'll need 2 for the amount of current draw you are mentioning.
 
 
An altronix AL400ULX (4 AMP) with a PD8 or an AL600ULX (6 AMP) with a PD8 would give you sufficient current, battery backup, and relays for AC loss and Battery. You will have to use 2 zones on the Omni to supervise the power supply.

 

[chrisexv6]

Just an FYI, if you go with one of the Altronix supplies you might want to pick up the low battery cutoff module. 
 
Its not built into the ULX boards, and I had an issue with my AL600 when it didnt cut back over to AC after power came back on.  Without the low battery cutoff it ran on batteries for 2 weeks (!!!) and brought the batteries down to 8.5V before i realized what happened (powered sensors started to go into trouble).

 

[nemesis]

Thank you!  I will look into this alternative.

 

[bucko]

I have a large system as well. I use a couple of P212S's for sensors, PIR's, MXVOR, etc. Then I have an 8 cam pwr supply for dr strikes, OC sensors, water and gas valves, routers, Vera 3, SQ Blaster,etc.
I use another 16 cam pwr supply for my cams, with outputs left over. 
I use a UPS for the cam power supplies and batteries for the P212S's and Elk panel. 
It all seems to work well.
BTW, my routers, Vera, XEP, SQ Blaster are powered via relays controlled by my XVOR. I have scheds in my Vera to cycle these relays to reboot this stuff every few days to keep things fresh. Of course I can also remote reboot all these devices when I need.

 

[nemesis]

Exploring the Altronix option and considering my intended usage, would you recommend utilzing the PD8CB with the PTC Outputs (similar to the Elk PD9HC) or the Fused PD8?  What is prefered in a security alarm scenrio?
 
 
Bucko, that is a really neat idea with the relays enabling scheduled reboots.  Sound like a future project to explore!

 

[nemesis]

One additional Altronix question, they appear to offer a combination setup which has the PD8 integrated into the enclosure, AL600ULPD8 (fused) and AL600ULPD8CB (PTC).  Any reason why not to go this way as opposed to the ULX and seperate PD8?

 

[nemesis]

Found several articles regarding fused vs PTC and anwered my own question.  Below are two of the most helpful links for any of the other noobs.  I have ordered the self contained AL600ULPD8CB (PTC).  Once it shows up I will explore possibly adding an Altronix LPD as per chrisexv6's recommendation. 
 
 
http://www.littelfuse.com/Technical%20Resources/Education%20Center/Fuses%20vs%20PTCs.aspx
 
http://www.electronicproducts.com/Passive_Components/Circuit_Protection/Fuse_or_PTC.aspx

 

[chrisexv6]

I neglected to mention, I did add on a PTC protected 8 way distribution block.  I like the idea of PTC because they are auto-resetting, granted only if you fix what caused them to trip to begin with.  Also no need to keep extra fuses around just in case.
 
Altronix product numbering is fairly intuitive, but I found it much cheaper to pick up the AL600 with can separate from the PTC board, then the PTC board just screws right into place in the can for the AL600.

 

[nemesis]

Makes sense.  I was able to grab one of the combined units off of Ebay for a decent price.  I assume that you just spliced the LPD directly in the Altronix can.  In order to stupid proof it for me, where exactly does it tie in?
 
I agree with your PTC comment.  With the security system I would like as many items as possible to autoreset. 

 

[chrisexv6]

Did you get the model with supervisory contacts? Those can be feed back to the alarm panel for basic alerts.

I believe the lpd goes between the power panel and battery.... Altronix website should have the install docs for you

 

[nemesis]

I got the AL600ULPD8CB.  It does have the supervision for power and battery.  Judging by the installation instructions it is the same AL600 cabinet with a PD8ULCB installed.  I believe the UL in the designation is for UL listing.  Below is a link to the manual.  I have also included a link to the LPD manual.  So am I understanding it correctly that the LPD goes in between the Power Supply board and the Power Distribution Module?
 
Power
http://www.altronix.com/products/installation_instructions/AL600ULXseries.pdf
 
LPD
http://www.altronix.com/products/installation_instructions/LPD.pdf

 

[Del91574]

There's pros and cons for PTC's and you need to be aware of the applications each are best suited for...in the case of a camera or similar, you're better off using fuses. PTC's typically have a higher overcurrent trip compared to when a fuse would blow, so if you have voltage sensitive electronics downstream, be aware of it.
 
In the case of what power supply to consider, make sure you choose one that has a 0 voltage loss when switching over to battery otherwise there's all sorts of issues that arise that many don't consider.
 
If you're installing the supplies remote, it's generally a best practice to get a supply that has aux contact outputs for supervisiory conditions, like AC and LB.