Best low cost route for multiple TVs in house? Cable/Sat?

My personal favorite is the HD Homerun devices.  I am using these with the MythTV  box. 
 
I have mentioned here on the forum that there is a direction (from CC) to move away from the use of cable cards to only the use of STBs.
 
This does contradict the future use of cable cards. 
 
That said so far the only changes have been to encrypt local channels forcing the use of a cable card or STB to watch local television stations on cable. (big stick roll changed the original FCC rules)
 
tglarsen said:
I like this option, though I have Macs in the house... and 3 XBox 360s and a XBone.
 
However, this looks to be a good options;
http://cetoncorp.com/products/infinitv-6-ethernet/
 
Nice call on this, as it would save me at least $25/mo in box charges.
 
Are you running this or have any experience with it?
 
And thoughts compared to this;  HD HomeRun
 
If using my 360s is a way to beat out the system, may as well give it a run.
Click to expand...
 
The Ceton products don't work with OS X but SiliconDust products do.  You can run MythTV on Mac OS X using the SiliconDust HDHomerun Prime.  I created/maintain an OS X-installer:  
 
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MacPorts
http://sourceforge.net/projects/macportsmythtvinstaller/
 
Protected content--only Windows Media Center can access all channels from the cable company.  Some cable co's protect many channels; other only the premiums (like movie channels).  I'm not based in the US--I can never remember which cablecos are good and bad.
 
With Myth, your Mac Mini would (likely) become the backend system that fetches the guide data, records programs based on your rules (and deletes old recorded programs as it needs space), runs commercial detection, fetches metadata from the internet, and serves the recordings to each of your frontends.
 
A frontend is a computer (running Mythfrontend, strangely enough).  Here you browse your recorded media and play what you want.  It is also the interface for day-to-day management of the system--mostly setting up new recording rules and the like.
 
Your backend machine can also be connected to a TV and serve as a frontend, as well.
 
Note that setting up Myth requires entering a series of commands via Terminal.  For some (many?) people, that is a deal-breaker.  The wiki page above lays out what has to be done in cookbook-style.
 
Craig
 
Protected content--only Windows Media Center can access all channels from the cable company.  Some cable co's protect many channels; other only the premiums (like movie channels).  I'm not based in the US--I can never remember which cablecos are good and bad.
Click to expand...
 
OP is using Comcast.  Here in the midwest near Chicago; Comcast is encrypting all content today. 
 
I am using one HD Homerun with cable cards today.
 
Thinking today many of the US based cable companies are now encrypting all of broadcasts over the cable.
 
I have not had any issues with the MythTV box.  The commercial skip works great. 
 
Setup of MythTV box proper today is with two internal cards (Nexus and analog) plus two HD Homerun boxes.  Works great.
 
I never really look much at it.  I manage it a few ways; via SSH, Webmin and occasionally via GUI.
 
You can install MythTV manually or just use the Live MythTV ISO to install; easy peasy stuff.
 
MythTVBox.jpg
 
For EPG been using Schedules Direct now for a few years.  Works great and very reasonably priced per year subscription.
 
http://www.schedulesdirect.org/
 
I am using Gb connected Aopen Digital Engines for my XBMC boxes.  They do well streaming live TV, web media streaming and in house media streaming.  I have tested multiple live video streams from concurrently running XBMC boxes to work just fine.  Each TV has two means only of video which work fine for me.  Tested wireless and its OK but still prefer the Gb connection to the XBMC box.
 
1 - RG6 cables going to LCD TV's provide HD / SD (inhouse) live channels per selection while
2 - Network provides the XBMC box data streaming stuff via HDMI  / HD audio.
 
Personally I prefer the Linux Ubuntu based XBMC boxes (versus any other OS).  Note that XBMC and MythTV are free programs.
 
DELInstallations said:
Uverse still requires a STB but NOT ethernet, it still goes back to their RG via whatever infrastructure choice, they only offer the cabling choice as an convenience.
Click to expand...
Yes U-verse requires a set top box for each tv but I don't believe that  there is any fee for the boxes. Mayybe there is a limit on the numer of boxes that they supply?
 
The system can be cabled from the RG to each stb via rg cable from an existinng cable tv system or via cat5 ethernet but I have heard that there are many more callouts for signal troubles witth the rg cable installations although I can't say why.
 
Mike.
 
mikefamig said:
Yes U-verse requires a set top box for each tv but I don't believe that  there is any fee for the boxes. Mayybe there is a limit on the numer of boxes that they supply?
 
The system can be cabled from the RG to each stb via rg cable from an existinng cable tv system or via cat5 ethernet but I have heard that there are many more callouts for signal troubles witth the rg cable installations although I can't say why.
 
Mike.
Click to expand...
Charge for each STB and generally only a single DVR installed per household. Maximum of 4 streams of "multicast" able to come through the RG, no if's and's or but's.
 
There is really no difference for callouts, the biggest item of contention is the quality of the copper from the dmarc back to the node which is the largest cause of issues. Second is improperly installed coax/splits, they have to be on the money, so to speak. The percentage of callouts for coax vs. UTP is strictly a function of how much infrastructure is installed in the wild. C5 or C5E to a TV location has almost never been the standard nor commonly done unless someone pulls a composite cable or pulled a lot of cable on a rough. Usually it's easier to make a passable CAT connection compared to coax for most novices or those that don't do it daily.
 
If you took a TDM to the cables (either a CAT or coax) it's pretty easy to see a poor installation compared to good...so much so you can pick out almost everywhere the cable is secured or stapled in most installs.
 
DELInstallations said:
Charge for each STB and generally only a single DVR installed per household. Maximum of 4 streams of "multicast" able to come through the RG, no if's and's or but's.
 
There is really no difference for callouts, the biggest item of contention is the quality of the copper from the dmarc back to the node which is the largest cause of issues. Second is improperly installed coax/splits, they have to be on the money, so to speak. The percentage of callouts for coax vs. UTP is strictly a function of how much infrastructure is installed in the wild. C5 or C5E to a TV location has almost never been the standard nor commonly done unless someone pulls a composite cable or pulled a lot of cable on a rough. Usually it's easier to make a passable CAT connection compared to coax for most novices or those that don't do it daily.
 
If you took a TDM to the cables (either a CAT or coax) it's pretty easy to see a poor installation compared to good...so much so you can pick out almost everywhere the cable is secured or stapled in most installs.
Click to expand...
 
I pay no fee for stb but my wife is  an ATT employee and we get a concession. I did not think that the boxes were part of it but could be. I got if from installers that the cable installations had been troublesome for them. It could very well be due to sloppy cabling by the cable installers or homeowner. 
 
I ran cat5 to every device and have 1080i video all over the house and in the detached garage as well. The cable installer did such a poor job installing cable in my house that I was looking forward to getting rid of it.
 
Mike.
 
STB's are definately a charge and factored into tier plan also.
 
Uverse guys have problems with the cabling because they're either not used to making RG6QS qualified connections (every tech I've seen has premade whips to connect to existing plates and only replace ends with compression "as needed" or they are reusing existing infrastructure used by the original CATV installation. I've been toe to toe with them on a freshly wired house with all cabling qualified and swept before they walked in the door in addition to my own house....they've had more issues with their STB's and RG's compared to overall cabling issues.
 
In my area, the largest issue they ran across were the contractors (ATT employees from out of state) to get the installs rolling, lots of QC issues and problems with copper from the node to the endpoint, which Uverse is very sensitive to. I won't get into the QC of the installs, however compared to the CATV guys, at least what I've seen is a lot better.
 
Yeah when I had the Verizon FIOS installed in Florida, I had prewired with RG6 and Cat5e everywhere.  The installer only used the RG6 which was all wired from everywhere to the wiring closet. 
 
I wanted to see how it was done and helped.  Mostly concerned with the power / battery UPS thing for the telephone pieces.  I wanted the device to be in a walk in closet adjacent to the master bedroom and it was sort of a PITA to drill from the outside in.  That day too I installed an electrical box in the wall adjacent to the device (in the walk in closet) running a piece of romex from another box in the master bedroom. (quickie trip to the Ace Hardware).  My best guess though if I had not been there or helping the box would have been mounted in the master bedroom adjacent to the wall outlet (not really something I wanted to look at). 
 
I asked the tech about using the category 5 and he said he was only familiar with the installation using RG6.  That said though the installation took a good part of one day.  He gave me the installation guide for the combination router, MOCA, Access point and switch.  I configured it for all of the devices and locked it down.  I did keep the MOCA base network in place and bridged one Ethernet port to a second firewall which is still in place today.
 
I was glad that I was there.  Years before and in the 1970's the old house was wired with cable.  It was tacked on to the outside of the home in a series fashion with the cable just inserted into drilled holes in whatever room that a TV was installed.
 
MOCA is getting faster now; preference here in the midwest is just to utilize the Gb catXX and the new managed switches.  I did leave the RG6 cables in place and do utilize them.  IE: TV's still get SD and HD OTA stuff and I mixed my stuff into the RF and each of them have an XBMC box with an HDMI connection for live streaming media and recorded content.  Works fine and its a free DIY (well almost free).  Many friends here just rent the little Comcast mini HD boxes connected to their HD TV's via RG6 and it works for them just fine.  Thinking that one neighbors combo cable stuff is a bit over $300 per month these days.

 
So, my questions;
1. Cheapest/best route to go for mutli-TV cable box viewing
2. Dish or Comcast
Click to expand...
 
Mostly you have seen that the most reasonably priced methodology is to DIY it; which can get very complex.
 
Best to try to attempt a 3-5 year contract with a locked rate for 6 TV's with all of the bells and whistles and hardware included at no extra price. (after all you shouldn't buy any hardware because you are renting anyways).
 
pvrfan said:
Protected content--only Windows Media Center can access all channels from the cable company.  Some cable co's protect many channels; other only the premiums (like movie channels).  I'm not based in the US--I can never remember which cablecos are good and bad.
Click to expand...
 
This is the key here.  I'm use Windows Media Center with the HD Homerun Prime (3 tuner).  I previously had the Ceton InfiniTV4 internal card.  It was very unreliable, and ran very hot inside the computer.  I've now been on the HDHRP for a year and have had no problems.  If you are deciding between the two, I strongly recommend the HDHRP.
 
If you need to access copy protected content, I believe WMC and TIVO are your only choices to bring your own device.  The other HTPC solutions can handle OTA signals and unprotected TV content.
 
With WMC you'll need:
  • The HTPC, which can handle one TV (but doesn't have to if you prefer extenders at all TVs).
  • Any other TVs where you want to share recording, guide data, etc. the XBOX 360 is your best choice as an extender.  If sharing your recordings between TVs doesn't matter, you can just put an HTPC at each TV.  You can't share the recordings, because the copy protection limits usage to that HTPC and any extenders connected to it.
  • Another bright side to WMC is the guide data is free.
  • The down side is the extender experience is a little slow to start up.  The XBOX has to boot up and re-connect with WMC.  This takes 30 seconds to a minute.
  • Microsoft also seems to have dropped any ambition to improve WMC, however there are some handy add-ins that can help you customize the experience.
 
I have no experience with TIVO.  When I was getting into my HTPC experiment, one of my primary goals was to rip all my movies and just stream them around the house.  TIVO didn't have that capability... not sure if it does now.  If you have the ROKUs or FireTVs, I believe they can do this too.  I just like having the one device handle it all so my wife doesn't have to change inputs on all the electronics.
 
If you decide to go the WMC route, here's a few quick tips:
  • Get an SSD for the boot drive.  This is also the drive that will serve up all the guide info and UI.  It makes things much snappier.
  • Have a separate recording drive.  When a TV show is being watched, the drive is both writing and reading the stream.  A HD can handle quite a few streams at once, but I've found that if the recording drive is shared with other content (ripped movies, etc), if you try to navigate while a show is playing, the UI gets a little laggy.
My recommendation is if you want to have your movie library played through the same UI, WMC is a good choice.  If all you care about is consuming TV content, the TIVO or the cable provider devices are probably a better experience/easier to use.
 
Back in the day, people would've chimed in and said Sage was the way to go - but we can thank Google for killing them.  I really like the Tivo option (I had the first Tivo ever back in 2000 and still think it's the best DVR out) but I totally agree about the service fees - I'm just not gonna do it.  The math does work though if you just pay it off and keep it around for several years.
 
How many sources do you think you'd need at any one time?  I would take a real serious look at a matrix switcher - they can send the signal out over HDBaseT extenders.  It's a lot upfront but you'd eliminate all the STB charges.
 
It'd downright frustrating how expensive TV is getting especially with all the STB charges - I've been so fed up with it that I've just gotten tired of TV altogether lately.
 
Running a media center or similar recording option could work - you just need to make sure that you really do get all the channels you want.  If that does work I'd be pretty intrigued, although I now live in a non-comcast area (local cable provider sucks so I use DirecTV).
 
Anyone using a cloud service to record/playback HD content?  Perhaps it would drop some of the equipment cost, reducing it to something like a Roku.
 
NeverDie said:
Anyone using a cloud service to record/playback HD content?  Perhaps it would drop some of the equipment cost, reducing it to something like a Roku.
Click to expand...
 
I don't know of any service which uploads recorded content, from a local tuner, to a cloud server.  Do you?  simple.tv has cloud management of a local tuner with a local disk drive attached, but that's still a $200+ device, not including the USB drive needed.  Aereo was a cloud service, but it got shut down by lawsuit.
 
OK, with all the suggestions, I think I have my solution in place.
 
I went with the HD Homerun Prime, 3 tuner.  I have 5 cheap xbox 360s, so knowing that those could be extenders is what did the deal.
 
I kept one HD box just in case, and for my slingplayer.
 
This solution will only cost me $5/mo in box charges, saving me about $30/mo.  This system appears to pay for itself within a year, and I'll be rocking for a while.
 
Thoughts???
 
Then you decided to stick with Comcast eh? 
 
Here have a Wintel server configured as a PlayOnTV box.  I keep all of the movies / subs there.  I've had the box / software since the company started with the service a few years back.  They have a feature called play later which allows me to record any of the content for viewing later.
 
The XBMC boxes streaming from PlayOn TV works fine for me.
 
PlayOn TV
 
Here in the midwest in our small little subdivision AT&T is now selling Uverse which is a good thing relating to competition. 
 
I would have preferred Verizon FIOS.  (Verizon is offering its wares in town here).
 
I would also prefer an unobtrusive large internet pipe than any media content tailored pipe offered by  the Comcast, AT&T or Verizon.
 
Ya, I decided to stick.  After checking with Dish, the price I am getting with cr@pcast worked out better with all the equipment I have in place.  It was my box charges that were killing me and bumping it up so high.  Until fiber hits my area (never), I'll probably be with them.
 
I think this will be a solid solution, so long as I work the kinks out.
 
Having the Boxee and Chromecast may be interesting items to toy around with.  We'll see, though.
 
I have an external HD that I may hook up to the dell, though I'm worried that the transfer rate from the dell to external will cause video/recording issues.
 
Everyone's help here was awesome, and saved me a lot.  I appreciate it!
 
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