Customer Insisting On Toggle Switches

[DavidL]

huggy59,
I am sure that would work, but not for a retrofit as there aren't any cat5 in that box. Also, you would have On / Off state, but no dim control or scenes.

Some of the Vantage switches look a little more subtle than the contemporary Insteon look. Of course that's a much larger $ decision.

I wouldn't use paint (no matter what type) as it is a dealer comeback in the wings.

Good plan UpstateMike. Let them approve or not and go forward.

 

[upstatemike]

Showed the Insteon decora switches to the customer and he still wants a price quote even if I can't do toggles. I guess I'll give him a quote and install a few demo units so he can try out the look and feel.

 

[The Pod]

Showed the Insteon decora switches to the customer and he still wants a price quote even if I can't do toggles. I guess I'll give him a quote and install a few demo units so he can try out the look and feel.

Insteon ToggleLincs should start shipping the end of this month. But so far they only show available in white or ivory. Not sure if they'll make a color change kit for these similar to the Swithlincs so that you could get the brown or almond color the customer wants.

The Pod

 

[upstatemike]

Actually the color issue is moot because I can't hold off till the end of the month. It will have to be rocker or nothing.

 

[markthomas]

UPB works great for "pro" installs. Mostly because there's a solution for any tricky integration requirement, with the I/O modules, inline modules, etc. But also because the devices are robust physically and UPB tends to just work.

 

[upstatemike]

I think UPB would be a problem because of cost. Also I am not UPB literate so I'm not sure I want to do a "short notice" job with something I don't know. Plus, I'm not sure what I would use to run the timing program... what is the UPB equivalent to a $50 PowerLinc?

 

[DavidL]

There is a UPB controller that allows for PC integration. Is that what you were asking about? This allows a PC or embedded controller (like an ELK) HA software to manage the lighting.

 

[upstatemike]

No. These folks won't want to leave a PC on all the time and something like an Elk is too expensive and complex. With the Insteon PowerLinc you just set up your timer / sunrise / sunset events then disconnect it from the PC and plug it in at some out of the way location. Just another inconspicuous wall wart. (And it's cheap).

Not sure what that translates to in the UPB world.

 

[markthomas]

I think UPB would be a problem because of cost.

It depends... are you going to support the installation? A friend of mine (a few years back) switched from SwitchLinc to PCS switches. PCS switches were more expensive, but he got far fewer "callbacks" and he ended up being more profitable.

I can provide additional anecdotal evidence, because I had a house full of a combination of switchlincs and PCS switches. I had a few switchlincs fail, some were erratic from the get-go (especially during power fluctuations). I replaced them with PCS switches. I never had a PCS switch fail.

Plus, I'm not sure what I would use to run the timing program... what is the UPB equivalent to a $50 PowerLinc?

You have several options, as each UPB brand has their own PIM (powerline interface module). For example the HAI PIM is $54 at Worthington.

If timing is all you need, there is a programmable UPB timer module which has the following features:
• Support for 99 separate timed "programs"
• Calendar-based timers, day of week, random, etc.
• Sunset and sunrise triggers
• Adjusts for leap years and daylight savings time
• Can be put into “Vacation†mode to make a residence look occupied even when there is no one home
• The timer can be used like a table-top controller to manually trigger pre-programmed timed events or to signal an emergency by turning on all automated lights with a single button press
• Nonvolatile memory and battery backup protect programs and keep the timer running even during extended power outages.

Saves money by not requiring a computer, even to program it. See http://www.digitalavnew.com/TIM-01%20Cut%20020606.pdf for further details. I think it runs about $150.

 

[upstatemike]

The timer looks pretty nice.

As for cost. If I was set up as a dealer doing regular installs then the higher cost switches would make sense but I am just charging for my time so the switch cost is just a pass through that is limited by what the customer is willing to pay. Retail on UPB is pretty high and I don't do enough of this kind of work to justify establishing a wholesale arrangement with anybody.