Ditch UPB or double down?

[dtremit]

When I did some renovations in 2010, I started what I assumed would eventually be a condo-wide UPB installation. At the moment, I have about a half-dozen UPB modules in place. I'm going to be doing some electrical work soon, and figured it would be a good time to go ahead and replace the rest of my switches. I'd also implement a more central control system, which would probably expand to include things like HT control, drapes, and remote access.
 
However, I'm noticing a few things. 

• First, it doesn't seem like there's been any development on UPB since my last installation.
• Second, almost none of the new automation hubs on the market -- many of which would probably be a great fit for my small condo -- support UPB at all.
• And finally, the cost of Z-wave devices is considerably lower than the UPB switches I currently have. I could probably replace all my switches (including the existing UPB ones) for the cost of the remaining UPB switches.

On the other hand, I've been happy with my switches in general (I have the Web Mountain modified SA ones) and I really like that I can combine a keypad and a switch in a single module.
 
I figure I have three options at this point:

• Replace everything with Z-wave (and hopefully sell the UPB gear)
• Double down with UPB, and settle an automation controller that supports it
• Keep my UPB switches, install Z-wave elsewhere, and get a controller that supports everything

I'm curious what others here would do...

 

[drvnbysound]

The inexpensive Zwave ones don't provide Instant Status feedback; that is they don't tell your HA system that they are on/off if they are manually used. You could setup polling to do this, but it can bog down the network with all of that extra traffic. If I were in your situation, I'd double down with UPB.
 
I have a Zwave network, and the only reason I do is that I wanted a single technology to do lighting, locks, and thermostats and Zwave offered it. If I was looking at lighting alone, I would certainly do UPB instead.

 

[pete_c]

I'd double down with UPB.
 
Hear, hear..
 
Went from X10 (late 1970's) to Insteon (2005 -salad days) to UPB (current) for my light switches. 
 
I also have Zigbee, Zigbee, X10 and Insteon controllers in place.
 
OmniPro II talks X10, Z-Wave and UPB today (it will also talk Zigbee).
 
Homeseer talks X10, Z-Wave, Insteon and UPB today.
 
Zigbee LV / HV stuff in place today talks to multiple Securifi Devices (Almond + and Almond 2015).

 

[ChrisCicc]

FYI the CastleHUB supports UPB...
 
http://www.castleos.com/

 

[dtremit]

Thanks for all the quick responses (and good point about the feedback). I really do like the look and flexibility of the HA/WM switches, I have to say.
 
I need to do a bit more digging into control options (including CastleOS). pete_c, what are you using?

 

[ano]

When I did some renovations in 2010, I started what I assumed would eventually be a condo-wide UPB installation. At the moment, I have about a half-dozen UPB modules in place. I'm going to be doing some electrical work soon, and figured it would be a good time to go ahead and replace the rest of my switches. I'd also implement a more central control system, which would probably expand to include things like HT control, drapes, and remote access.
 
However, I'm noticing a few things. 

• First, it doesn't seem like there's been any development on UPB since my last installation.
• Second, almost none of the new automation hubs on the market -- many of which would probably be a great fit for my small condo -- support UPB at all.
• And finally, the cost of Z-wave devices is considerably lower than the UPB switches I currently have. I could probably replace all my switches (including the existing UPB ones) for the cost of the remaining UPB switches.

On the other hand, I've been happy with my switches in general (I have the Web Mountain modified SA ones) and I really like that I can combine a keypad and a switch in a single module.
 
I figure I have three options at this point:

• Replace everything with Z-wave (and hopefully sell the UPB gear)
• Double down with UPB, and settle an automation controller that supports it
• Keep my UPB switches, install Z-wave elsewhere, and get a controller that supports everything

I'm curious what others here would do...

I would never give up UPB.
 
Your post never really says what your goal is for home automation?  Does it has to work with an automation hub?  If so, UPB wouldn't be my choice, but the "hubs" are not what I would call "real home automation."  All real home automation systems do support UPB.
 
Is cost most important?  You usually get what you pay for. X-10 is probably the cheapest.
 
You can certainly mix protocols. I have UPB and Zigbee, but while there is crossover, they each really have different uses.
 
If UPB is reliable for you, why change, unless there is a controller you want to use that doesn't support it. (Very few good ones don't support it.)

 

[dtremit]

Good questions, ano. 
 
Does it need to work with a hub? Not really. I need some sort of a centralized control system, with phone/tablet support, but it need not be a hub. That being said, I really don't need a hugely complicated system -- I envision eventually controlling lighting, a few ceiling fans, a half dozen automated window shades, and maybe a door lock somewhere down the line. So something like Homeseer has always felt like massive overkill.
 
Cost isn't a big concern (though obviously it's not irrelevant), but I felt that since the cost of finishing my UPB system and installing a new Z-Wave system seemed comparable, I ought to consider both. 
 
I guess my biggest concern with UPB is obsolescence. The market for UPB devices seems completely moribund -- there have really been no new devices in the past five years, from what I can tell. And no new products on the market seem to be supporting it, even though it's fairly easy to interface with on a technical level. I do have some concerns about ending up with a house full of unsupported switches that won't work with anything modern, in a few years.

 

[pete_c]

pete_c, what are you using?

 
I am using an HAI OmniPro II (X2)-early 2000's and Homeseer software (since 1998).
 
In 1998 in old home had an alarm panel circa 1980's which while being primarily an alarm panel had TTS and X10 features.

 

[drvnbysound]

Good questions, ano. 
 
Does it need to work with a hub? Not really. I need some sort of a centralized control system, with phone/tablet support, but it need not be a hub. That being said, I really don't need a hugely complicated system -- I envision eventually controlling lighting, a few ceiling fans, a half dozen automated window shades, and maybe a door lock somewhere down the line. So something like Homeseer has always felt like massive overkill.
 
Cost isn't a big concern (though obviously it's not irrelevant), but I felt that since the cost of finishing my UPB system and installing a new Z-Wave system seemed comparable, I ought to consider both. 
 
I guess my biggest concern with UPB is obsolescence. The market for UPB devices seems completely moribund -- there have really been no new devices in the past five years, from what I can tell. And no new products on the market seem to be supporting it, even though it's fairly easy to interface with on a technical level. I do have some concerns about ending up with a house full of unsupported switches that won't work with anything modern, in a few years.

 
Now you're getting a little crazy...
 
I'm not sure about the automated shade offerings, but I know you won't be finding any UPB offerings for door locks...

 

[ano]

Somfy supports Zigbee, Z-Wave and its own RTS, but Z-Wave and Zigbee will be more pricey and give you less options than RTS.  For locks, there is Zigbee and Z-Wave. 
 
Your not going to find UPB locks obviously, but you could easily use a SA UMI-32 to control the drapes/blinds. 
 
This is what you face with home automation, no technology does everything well.  So I use an Omni Pro II like Pete, with UPB for lights, Zigbee for locks and thermostat, and RTS for blinds.  
 
 

I envision eventually controlling lighting, a few ceiling fans, a half dozen automated window shades, and maybe a door lock somewhere down the line. So something like Homeseer has always felt like massive overkill.

If you are talking about controlling lights, locks and shades, you are certainly not on the simple side of the home automation spectrum.  Again, you really need to think about WHAT you want to do.  If you just want to unlock your doors with a smartphone, or open your blinds with a remote, you really don't need real home automation. But if you are paying for 90% of the total cost for home automation, why not do it?
 
Once you add up the cost of those UPB switches, motorized blinds and and remote locks, the price of HomeSeer is pretty trivial. But if you want a remote controlled home with no "brains" that is your option.

 

[Frunple]

Take a look at Elve. It's free and controls everything you're wanting to do.

 

[jdk972003]

Unless I missed something, Elve, although great software, is at a dead end with no further development.
 
thats not something you choose for a new installation.

 

[drvnbysound]

If it's FREE and does everything you'd want... why would it matter?
 
I bought into SageTV (used equipment) after Google had bought them and no further STV development was going to be done. That was about 3-ish years ago, and I'm still using it today...

 

[dtremit]

My only two absolute requirements are UPB support and a decent iOS client. Obviously, for additional devices like shades or locks, I'll need to add another protocol, probably z-wave. Based on that, it sounds like I need to evaluate whether one of the following products will meet my needs, cost-effectively:

• HomeSeer
• CQC
• CastleOS
• Elve

The latter two seem a little less daunting, so I'll probably look there first. I can't seem to sign up for Elve's web forum, which is a little troubling.

 

[pete_c]

Here like what I see with Zigbee these days.
 
I can talk Zigbee with my Leviton OmniPro II and my Homeseer 3 today can talk to the OPII just fine (plugin is in alpha at this time).
 
Just curious if any of the software you have mentioned above talks Zigbee.
 
I know Rich at Homeseer has mentioned future support for Zigbee. 
 
Home automation here is not client/remote dependent; but that is me and that is here and there.