Elk M1 Gold - How Many Expanders, Power Supplies, etc. Do I Need?

[RAL]

3. The number of RS485 bus loads.  The base ELK supports 4, you will need a bus expander to add more than 4 devices and each keypad counts as do the zone expander cards.

 
 
The M1 supports more than 4 data bus loads.  Although you can connect only two daisy-chained data bus runs to the M1, each daisy chain can have many devices on it (keypads, zone expanders, etc).  If everything is wired as a home run with CATx cable, you can create the daisy chain with M1DBHs, or wire it by hand without a DBH.
 
Keypads and zone expanders are devices are of different types.  You can have up to 16 keypads (which are type 1) and 13 M1XINs (type 2, limited by total zone count).  Output expanders are type 3. So a keypad set to address 2 is different from an M1XIN set to address 2, since they are of different types.

 

[Del91574]

$Mike - I already home ran everything into a central location. 
 
You may want to re-think pulling all zones back to a central location. The purpose of an input expander is that it allows you to run a single cat5 wire to a distant location and then run zone wires in that area to it.
 
For example: you can put an input expander on each level of a building. Then run 1 cat 5 wire from the elk panel to each of those expanders. This would allow you to run all zone wires on each level to the expander on that level and not have to go all of the way back to the elk panel. If a level had 10 zones that would be 20 leads that you would have to run back to the elk rather than just one cat5 cable.
 
Mike.

I wouldn't recommend pigeonholing a new install with a topology with field based expansion, especially in a residential application where equipment can change like the breeze.
 
The exception to this would be a remote building, where pulling the amount of copper between buildings is usually prohibitive, but that introduces other items
 
 

You have several considerations to deal with.  They include:
1. Power
2. The number of 16 port zone expanders you will need.
3. The number of RS485 bus loads.  The base ELK supports 4, you will need a bus expander to add more than 4 devices and each keypad counts as do the zone expander cards.
4. Mounting space for it all.  As was suggested, you can remote some of the zone expanders to both reduce wire run length, as well as eliminating all those wires coming to one place.

 
The M1 will only support 2 supervised 485 busses. That can be modified using retrofit boards, but that's going to add to considerations in the field and at the panel, again, not recommended for a fresh buildout.

 

[mikefamig]

I wouldn't recommend pigeonholing a new install with a topology with field based expansion, especially in a residential application where equipment can change like the breeze.
 
The exception to this would be a remote building, where pulling the amount of copper between buildings is usually prohibitive, but that introduces other items

 
DEL
 
I don't understand, are you saying that there is a problem with using an M1XIN in a residential installation? What are the drawbacks?
 
Mike.

 

[ccmichaelson]

DEL
 
I don't understand, are you saying that there is a problem with using an M1XIN in a residential installation? What are the drawbacks?
 
Mike.

 
What DEL is suggesting is that I don't have more than 1 location to house all my security equipment - which is why I home ran everything into a central location - which IMO provides the most flexibility but I'm a noob and only time will tell

 

[mikefamig]

What DEL is suggesting is that I don't have more than 1 location to house all my security equipment - which is why I home ran everything into a central location - which IMO provides the most flexibility but I'm a noob and only time will tell

 
I'm pretty new at this myself and always learning. I thoughtthat the purpose of the m1xin is to minimize wiring in large installations and with as many zones as you have it seems it would qualify. That is that I was assuming that your zones are pretty well spread out over a large area. what is the square footage of your house that is being wired?
 
It's all academic anyway being that your walls are closed in and there is certainly nothing wrong having the wires all go back to one location. I'm just curious and always learning.
 
Mike.

 

[drvnbysound]

I'm pretty new at this myself and always learning. I thought that the purpose of the m1xin is to minimize wiring in large installations and with as many zones as you have it seems it would qualify. That is that I was assuming that your zones are pretty well spread out over a large area. what is the square footage of your house that is being wired?
 
It's all academic anyway being that your walls are closed in and there is certainly nothing wrong having the wires all go back to one location. I'm just curious and always learning.
 
Mike.

 
I'd say that the purpose of the M1XIN is to simply add wired zones, beyond the 16 that the M1G offers on-board. Whether you add it in a central or remote location is completely up to the installation. It's a heck of a lot easier to troubleshoot everything that's centrally located vs. chasing down various connections and cables to remote locations if it's not necessary.

 

[Del91574]

DEL
 
I don't understand, are you saying that there is a problem with using an M1XIN in a residential installation? What are the drawbacks?
 
Mike.

Mike- in a new build, it would not be recommended to install expansion out in the field or in multiple locations rather than at a single head end, barring multiple buildings/remote sites (your house, for example) as what it really saves on cable vs. centralized and future proofing the install. We're not talking a large installation in 99% of the residential applications out there.
 
In a commercial application, where cable pulls are in the hundreds or thousands of feet, pulling to a central location isn't generally possible, so intelligent decisions to build infrastructure points would be the topology.

 

[mikefamig]

Of course....."Keep It Simple Stupid". Sometimes I need to be reminded.

 

[ccmichaelson]

An Altronix power supply like the AL400 (4 Amps) or AL600 (6 Amps) would be good choices.  You can get them with or without power distribution boards (PD4, PD8, PD16).  The power distribution boards are available with fuses or PTCs (adds a "CB" to the end of the model).
 
The Altronix distribution boards are very similar to the Elk PD9s.  Just a different number of outputs and options for fuses or PTCs.
 
Some example Altronix models would be:
 
AL400ULX:        4 Amp power supply, no distribution board.
AL400ULPD8:      4 Amp power supply, 8 output fused distribution board.
AL400ULPD8CB:    4 Amp power supply, 8 output PTC distribution board.
AL400ULXPD16CB:  4 Amp power supply, 16 output PTC distribution board.
 
You can often find a bargain on the complete supplies as well as the individual distribution boards on eBay.  Look carefully at what is being sold, however.  Some older Altronix models use step down transformers rather than having direct AC line connections.  There's nothing terribly wrong with that, they are just a little less efficient.

 
Did I mention that I'm a newbie...  I believe I understand how/why I wire the zones (most likely to a M1XIN) but the red/black wires go to what - the PDB?  Taking a step back, if my alarm panel (Elk M1 Gold) is plugged into an A/C wall socket and the panel itself can only power a few devices, if I purchased an Altronix power supply w/ 16 output PDB I assume I would plug in the Altronix power supply to the A/C wall socket too and have the ability to power 16 devices?  Given that I have 37 motion sensors (Bosch Blue Line Gen 2) and a dozen water sensors (RGI-2600) I'm going to need a lot of extra power/hookups.

 

[RAL]

 
Did I mention that I'm a newbie...  I believe I understand how/why I wire the zones (most likely to a M1XIN) but the red/black wires go to what - the PDB?  Taking a step back, if my alarm panel (Elk M1 Gold) is plugged into an A/C wall socket and the panel itself can only power a few devices, if I purchased an Altronix power supply w/ 16 output PDB I assume I would plug in the Altronix power supply to the A/C wall socket too and have the ability to power 16 devices?  Given that I have 37 motion sensors (Bosch Blue Line Gen 2) and a dozen water sensors (RGI-2600) I'm going to need a lot of extra power/hookups.

 
You don't necessarily need to connect just a single device to each distribution board output.  For low current devices like the motion sensors, you could easily power many from a single output. 
 
Some people wirenut say 4 to 8 wires together, along with a pigtail wire that they then connect to the screw terminal of the power distribution board. 
 
Another way is to use screw terminal barrier strips to fan out each power distribution board output.  A bus bar strip makes it easy to connect all the barrier strip screws on one side to a distribution board output.  Or you can just daisy chain a piece of wire from one screw to the next.  You'll need a set of barrier strips for +12V and another for ground/common.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321482290435
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/311008918361
 
One thing to watch out for is the screw-to-screw spacing of the terminals on the barrier strip vs the bus bar.  There are different spacings, and the eBay sellers don't always make it easy to tell what they are.
 
One way to organize things would be to connect the yellow and green wires from each 4-wire sensor cable to the various zone inputs of the M1 or M1XIN.  Then connect the red and black wires to the terminal strips mounted in the M1 can.  Run two wire power feeds from the barrier strips over to the the power distribution board output in the Altronix can.

 

[Del91574]

If there's a distro board involved, I'd probably pair up power conductors on an output. From that point, I'd look what's left and probably combine like units.
 
I've never been a huge fan of terminal strips, blocks and the like. More of a KISS installer method. Each point you add to the system adds to the failure points.....and more things to investigate once you've got an issue.