Elk M1G - Telular TG-1b or TG-1 Express

Basic electrical and alarm panels 101:

The panels connected the Telgard are irrelevant, any panel that supports CID, O/C reports, keyswitch arming and has an output or outputs that change based on arm status would be compatible. Anything can be modified for voltage polarity, etc. via a relay.

The Elk's triggers on out 7-16 are a positive trip. You could, if absolutely necessary, use Out 3, but that is honestly easier to leave for another purpose and switch a higher load. The M1 and EZ8's trigger outputs are +12V, not an open collector, with limited current. You could use a 912, but it'll draw more current. I prefer to leave OUT 3 for other purposes due to the nature of the equipment we install and installation methods, which are a whole different discussion.

Take a look at the diagram you posted and think of it differently and look at it clearly. The TG and the trip is just like a zone on any other panel with the TG as the alarm panel. When closed to COM on the panel, the TG sees a 2.2K EOLR (internal) so it knows the alarm panel is armed and connected. If it sees nothing, then it's viewed as disarmed. The host alarm panel is switching the COM leg of the "zone" in this case. You can't provide a +voltage to the trip and expect it to work without letting the magic smoke out, it's direct short from the panel's aux power to COM. The open and close reports are also what are captured by the unit and used as a second form of verification for the app. With some exceptions, all panels sold in NA have the aux power COM and ZCOM common to each other, and any additional power supplies are always wired with them being common to the panel's negative COM as well, nature of the beast.

The 924 is constantly powered, per se, with the T+ from any OUT 7-16, which causes the coil to fire in the case of the M1. That provides a dry contact on the other side of the relay. You're going to end up feeding the COM through the dry contact of the relay. The rule itself vs. the triggers having power would determine which terminals (NC/NO) you connect to the TG, with COM being connected to panel COM. No voltage, just switching the COM of the panel via a positive trigger in the case of the M1.

The benefit of using a 924 in this case with the DPDT relay is the benefit of a second isolated relay that would allow you to install a LED for armed status, which we commonly do for keyfob arm verification, very easily with no additional programming and minimal wiring.

If you wanted to add the expense or already had one installed, you could use an output expander on the M1 panels to do the same, but the difference in many of our cases is adding a single $5 relay vs the cost of an XOVR or M1RB and not using them to their full ability.
 
I'd centrally locate the receiver. With the ground plane antennas you can run pretty far and I doubt highly that you'd have an issue. The only thing with the Micras is to make sure the antenna is extended, no range problems otherwise.

You have 3 different styles of keypads. The M1KP(Blue) will be the only ones that support the internal prox reader, and you're not going to need the pigtail unless you're connecting an external reader to the M1KP's or a reader to the KP2, but not the Elk internal reader(s).

As far as the internal speakers, you've got an odd # of them, which will make getting an appropriate impedence for the M1 difficult. You're best off to go with either 8 (for an 8 ohm load, correctly wired) or 11 for a 4 ohm load at the M1.

The SAW wireless is a hit or miss for the M1G. It'll technically work, however the tolerance for the frequency is too wide for the M1RF2G and could cause some issues. The better solution would be to hardwire a flood detector into a universal crystal transmitter and learn it as a NO circuit. I don't have my GE sourcebook with me to look up to see if GE has a crystal flood detector, but I'm sure they must.

You're also only going to need a single hub, provided you run Cat 5 to the keypads. I prefer running 22/8 personally, but I like the advantages of a heavier cable and I typically forgo using the hubs because if you follow proper 485 wiring and pull enough conductors to the bus devices, it really doesn't have too many benefits besides the plug in factor. The only exception is a retrofit bus for using a single 4/22 homerun to a bus device.

The only other thing, which is personal preference, is I don't like the GE wireless CO detectors, I feel that they're garbage personally, but that's me and having installed lots of other units. I'd also stick to a single type of wire, solid or stranded. It's personal preference to what you use, I use solid 99% of the time, but people tend to nick the conductors or over-flex them, which leads to them breaking. Stranded, while flexible, needs to be paid attention to when twisting and installing under lugs and terminals for stray whiskers, also somewhat harder to use in a retrofit, depending on the wire run. There's no difference electrically in the two, and what you're technically installing is permanent building wiring, so flexibility really isn't high on the list IMHO.

Del,

Again, thank you :).

The pigtail was a carry over fro when I had all KP2's in the order before I realized they were not as feature rich as the order style keypads. The two M1KP's will be the units using the fobs (garage and front door) where as the single KP2 will be recessed in the master bedroom wall.

I cannot find any GE crystal based water sensors. Were you able to find any? Do you have any suggestions on better crystal based wireless CO detectors or were you referring to hard wired units?

Regarding the data bus hub, I have nearly 5000ft of CAT6 that I will be running all over the house for video, voice, data and the alarm which is the primary reason I am going that route vs 22/8. I reduced the number of speakers to 8, I must have mistyped. I was planning on running the 22/4 solid through the walls, but having not actually wired an Elk panel before, I figured i might need some stranded for making in the can connections (although as you pointed out, I could just as easily use solid and be more careful with it.

With regards to the centrally locating of the wireless receiver, would you go high or low? I could center it on the house and affix it to the basement ceiling and run the antennas in both directions or I could go high with it and run it in the attic, any preference?

I might have some questions regarding the wiring of the TG-1 Express once i get there.

You have been of great help (you all have) and if you have any software engineering questions I would be happy to help :)



 
I'd pull at least 6 conductors plus the Cat. cable to the unit and separate the power out of the Cat cable depending on the length of the run. That unit will draw 200mA while communicating, which in my experience has been at least 15-30 seconds once the dialer capture has ended, length of message etc. Generally I'd call that too high of a load on a 24 or 26awg pair, but I run conservative and safe.

Averaging a 150' run, which is within reason if you put the telular in a 2nd floor closet-highest point, you're past a 20% voltage drop, not good.

I am going to order the bulk of my cable tomorrow, the 22/4 I have covered as well as the cat6. What cable are you suggesting I run to the TG-1, 22/6?

My Cat6 is 23awg.


 
Jlegan

if your windows/doors are brand new you need to check with the manufacturer about making holes for those micra devices.
most manufacturers specially windows will void your warranty as soon as you make any holes.
just a heads up. I almost made that same mistake
 
I'd just pull a pair of 22/4 in addition to the Cat 6 and call it a day rather than worrying about ordering additional cable.

Electronics always in conditioned spaces. If possible, I'd put the RF receiver in a closet as central as possible. Antennas go up and down, if your're going to be using the ground plane antennas as well. I've had good results putting them in places you wouldn't think, like over the doors entering a closet, etc. Never seen, but work well. Either 1st of 2nd floor will work, just away from the TG a little bit.

As far as a flood, sticking with RF, you can go with a 5501 and use 5505's and 5515's with them, just wire the 5501 to a transmitter. Easier would be to switch the GE receiver on the M1 to a Honeywell and use a 5821 with it's own probe. I don't know if you have existing GE transmitters, but that is an option, cost is within pennies for each manufacturer. IMHO Honeywell (Ademco) has a wider and somewhat better variety of RF devices. The other nice thing is they have a RF repeater. GE used to offer one, but I don't see it listed anymore. It would allow you to extend your range and can be installed anywhere you have the ability to plug into AC power, only restriction is the system RF receiver needs to be able to "hear" it, but it's fully supervised otherwise.
 
Jlegan

if your windows/doors are brand new you need to check with the manufacturer about making holes for those micra devices.
most manufacturers specially windows will void your warranty as soon as you make any holes.
just a heads up. I almost made that same mistake

Thanks Pan, I have an email into them.
 
I'd just pull a pair of 22/4 in addition to the Cat 6 and call it a day rather than worrying about ordering additional cable.

Electronics always in conditioned spaces. If possible, I'd put the RF receiver in a closet as central as possible. Antennas go up and down, if your're going to be using the ground plane antennas as well. I've had good results putting them in places you wouldn't think, like over the doors entering a closet, etc. Never seen, but work well. Either 1st of 2nd floor will work, just away from the TG a little bit.

As far as a flood, sticking with RF, you can go with a 5501 and use 5505's and 5515's with them, just wire the 5501 to a transmitter. Easier would be to switch the GE receiver on the M1 to a Honeywell and use a 5821 with it's own probe. I don't know if you have existing GE transmitters, but that is an option, cost is within pennies for each manufacturer. IMHO Honeywell (Ademco) has a wider and somewhat better variety of RF devices. The other nice thing is they have a RF repeater. GE used to offer one, but I don't see it listed anymore. It would allow you to extend your range and can be installed anywhere you have the ability to plug into AC power, only restriction is the system RF receiver needs to be able to "hear" it, but it's fully supervised otherwise.


Thanks Del,

I am going GE mostly because it is what I am familiar with and I love the simplicity of the Micra-G's. With regards to the moisture sensors, do you have a transmitter that you like in the GE realm?

Thanks,

Jim

 
I am going GE mostly because it is what I am familiar with and I love the simplicity of the Micra-G's.
I went GE as well out of familiarity; but to be fair, the Micra-G's come in both GE and Honeywell compatible versions. (IIRC, Blue is GE and Black is Honeywell)

Can anyone else who's used them chime in on reliability of the Ion products? I just recently installed mine - and honestly, I didn't do a whole lot of troubleshooting yet - but I noticed about 3 that don't register opens/closes - they always say they're closed; I took one out and if I pressed it right up to the magnet then pulled away, it showed violated - but when I reinstalled it (while showing violated) then closed the window - it went normal again, and then stayed there during subsequent opens/closes. I don't want to hijack the OP's thread, but I'd love to just validate that others have had good experiences with them; and with any luck I'll have time tomorrow to troubleshoot some more. The plunger-G's do seem great though - with chime mode on I'm getting quick and accurate response on each door open/close.

Edit: Odd - I checked the ion site to double-check, and it shows only GE and DSC (blue/orange respectively) - but further searching turns up the 5800micra as the honeywell compatible one - and I'm pretty sure I read that the honeywell ones were black... but now I'm having trouble verifying.
 
Figure 10 from the OP II manual. Pretty cut and dry/ very easy. The "trip" portion is a switched negative that's "on" when the system is armed, rather than the switched positive as shown in the HAI docs, use a relay to reverse the polarity. The keyswitch portion is connected exactly the same as the HAI doc.
 
You need the Telular app and subscription portion. Programming the HAI is just enabling the keyswitch zone.
 
The best advice I can point you to is to look at the diagram for a Vista 20P. The Vista LED off the keyed header is a switched negative (pull to ground). The HAI is a switched positive.
 
Between the two diagrams it's easy enough to put together.
 
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