elk rules and timing

[mikefamig]

Next, would be to connect the wall switch back to the existing wiring (to provide the PCB with power, as you suggested) and test continunity at the GDO [motor] terminals, while the button is being pressed.

No that won't work. With 15vdc across the terminals the ohm meter wont read as you expect.
 
Mike.

 

[drvnbysound]

No that won't work. With 15vdc across the terminals the ohm meter wont read as you expect.
 
Mike.

 
That's exactly how I tested mine and confirmed that the switch was shorting the wiring... and why I ultimately wired my Elk to short the same wires.
 
I also tested (2) additional GDOs this same way, and have since wired them as well.

 

[RAL]

If you had the multimeter set to the Ohms scale, connecting the leads to a circuit that places a voltage across the leads will give you an inaccurate reading.   And it could damage the meter.  The voltage from the circuit will mess up the multimeter's ability to measure the resistance.
 
What you really want to do in this case is set the multimeter to a volts scale.  With the switch open, you will read whatever voltage the circuit has present (e.g. 15v).  When the switch closes, the voltage will drop.  How much it drops will depend on the resistance of the switch and how much current the circuit is pumping through the wires to the switch.   In the case of the garage door opener, the voltage should read close to zero, since a switch typically has low resistance and there probably is only a few milliamps of current flowing.

 

[mikefamig]

If you had the multimeter set to the Ohms scale, connecting the leads to a circuit that places a voltage across the leads will give you an inaccurate reading.   And it could damage the meter.  The voltage from the circuit will mess up the multimeter's ability to measure the resistance.
 
What you really want to do in this case is set the multimeter to a volts scale.  With the switch open, you will read whatever voltage the circuit has present (e.g. 15v).  When the switch closes, the voltage will drop.  How much it drops will depend on the resistance of the switch and how much current the circuit is pumping through the wires to the switch.   In the case of the garage door opener, the voltage should read close to zero, since a switch typically has low resistance and there probably is only a few milliamps of current flowing.

 
Another way to prove the same thing is to test each terminal voltage in reference to common ((see post 29). The voltage reading will drop to 0 only if the control is acting as a momentary switch and supplying  15v to the motor as with the older door openers that use a doorbell switch. This is not always the case.
 
Liftmaster makes an ethernet ready smart door opener that they call MYQ. I spoke to Liftmaster yesterday and they promised me that it will not work to cross the motor leads on a MYQ motor because the wall control is not a simple switch. In this case the wall switch sends an encrypted digital signal to the motor and if you read the voltage across the terminals and press the button I think that you will see no voltage drop. I'll have to try it this afternoon. I have one motor that is MYQ and two that are not and I'll poke around a little more this afternoon.
 
Mike.

 

[drvnbysound]

Sorry for not clarifying above, but I did not use the "ohm" setting nor the "volt" setting on my meter. I see the term "ohm meter" get used interchangeably with "volt meter" or digital multi meter (DMM) all the time that I always assume that a DMM is actually being used. Nonetheless, I used my DMM on the continuity setting.
 
Regardless of the IC and signals that are exchanged from the wall controller (aka "switch") I'd wager money that the actual "switch" is a standard momentary SPST switch - which is also what a doorbell uses.

 

[ragr]

I've been reading the forum for weeks and I'm learning a lot. I'm still having a problem writing an effective rule to close my overhead garage door. I wired a spare remote to output 3 just as I read in another post and wrote a rule for F4 button to activate it. It works beautifully, so thank you. Now I'm trying to get the garage to close if I leave it open at night so I wrote the following rule:
 
WHENEVER Downstairs (Area 1) IS ARMED STAY
AND THE TIME IS LATER THAN SUNSET
AND Garage Door (Zn 20) IS NOT SECURE
THEN TURN Garage Door (Out 3) ON FOR 2 SECS
 
My time zone is set accurately and the output works when I push the F4 button. 
Please ask me any questions and give any advice. I'm new at this.

 

[RAL]

How are you testing your rule?  Are you arming the system in Stay mode before sunset, and then expecting the door to close when sunset occurs?  If so, your rule won't work because the WHENEVER clause is triggered only once - at the moment that the system changes to Armed - Stay mode.  If it is later than sunset at that moment, the door should close.  But if it is earlier than sunset it will not, even when sunset arrives.
 
Also, note that LATER THAN SUNSET will only work up until midnight.  After midnight, it is no longer later than sunset.  You then need to have another rule that tests for EARLIER THAN SUNRISE.   Or, use AND IT IS DARK OUTSIDE.
 
This explanation of why some rules don't work might help you understand things better.
 
You need to think about the different cases that you might encounter, such as
 - when the system is armed before sunset
 - when the system is armed after sunset
 - what should happen if the system is armed after sunset and someone opens the door. 
 
You'll need rules to cover each case.

 

[mikefamig]

How are you testing your rule?  Are you arming the system in Stay mode before sunset, and then expecting the door to close when sunset occurs?  If so, your rule won't work because the WHENEVER clause is triggered only once - at the moment that the system changes to Armed - Stay mode.  If it is later than sunset at that moment, the door should close.  But if it is earlier than sunset it will not, even when sunset arrives.
 
Also, note that LATER THAN SUNSET will only work up until midnight.  After midnight, it is no longer later than sunset.  You then need to have another rule that tests for EARLIER THAN SUNRISE.   Or, use AND IT IS DARK OUTSIDE.
 
This explanation of why some rules don't work might help you understand things better.
 
You need to think about the different cases that you might encounter, such as
 - when the system is armed before sunset
 - when the system is armed after sunset
 - what should happen if the system is armed after sunset and someone opens the door. 
 
You'll need rules to cover each case.

 
Ditto what RAL said and to expand on the difference between the "whenever" and "and" conditions -
 
"whenever" will be true when a particular condition changes and "and" will be true when a particular condition exists.
 
For example:
 
"whenever area1 is armed" will be true the moment area1 changes state from disarmed to armed
 
"and area1 is armed" will be true as long as area1 is armed when the "and" condition is evaluated.
 
I mention this because It caused me trouble when I was first learning to use rules.
 
Mike.

 

[ragr]

Thank you. I read through the rules logic and it seems that the rule should work when:
I arm the system to STAY mode between sunset and midnight if the garage door zone is open /not secure.

Last night at 9pm, I opened garage door then set the alarm to stay mode. Nothing happened. Is that the proper way to test it? That is when I want the result.

I have Garage Door (Zn 20) defined as 16=Non-Alarm.

 

[sda]

Based on your rule, the Arming to stay mode is the trigger, qualified by later than sunset, and garage door not secure.
 
WHENEVER Downstairs (Area 1) IS ARMED STAY
AND THE TIME IS LATER THAN SUNSET
AND Garage Door (Zn 20) IS NOT SECURE
THEN TURN Garage Door (Out 3) ON FOR 2 SECS
 
In theory, it should have worked when you armed it to stay at 9pm (unless you live in Alaska, where sunset is about 10PM right now).
 
So, the Elk thinks its not after sunset, or zone 20 isn't being picked up properly.
 
Sunrise/sunset (dark/light) also depends on having the lat/long set properly.
In ElkRP, you can set that and check its calculated rise/set times.
 
You can check the garage door zone in ElkRP status.  Since its a type 16, it won't come up as a "not ready" zone on the keypads.  It could be not working and you'd never know it.

 

[tmbrown97]

You should also definitely use an app like M1toGo or ElkRMS or eKeypad to view your zones and ensure that the zone is showing as not secure (if you haven't already).
 
You can also use a hard time instead of "after sunset" for testing too.  I've read of some quirks with using that flag, though I can't give specifics right now from memory aside from the midnight thing already mentioned.  I would guess that a "whenever the house is armed and it is dark outside" would be the better rule.

 

[ragr]

The zone was showing not secure on ekeypad. I changed the rule to DARK OUTSIDE as you suggested and if worked perfectly. Thank you for all your help.