Has the time come for intelligent homes?

[judge_l]

To continue with the car analogy, another interesting use of senors and memory is the safety systems in cars and light trucks. Following serious crashes, we can retrieve quite a bit of pre and post crash data from the airbag system (not quite "black box" data from an airplane, but similar). Heavy trucks store data in the engine module. This data can be obtained from a standardized plug, usually under the dash. The plug was standardized so mechanics can access almost all of the cars systems.

Wouldn't it be interesting if following a break-in to a building, the police show up with their laptops, plug into the building and can see what systems were operating and where and when the entry was made, or how about a plumber being able to determine when and where the leak started without ripping apart the walls.

If I was to guess where the government might require some type of standardized data recorder would be in heating systems so that the parameters could be checked for safe conditions.

 

[Photon]

I would also argue that the security, electrical, plumbing, and HVAC systems of most homes have very much in common. It's interesting to note that these too all have some forms of government regulation involved.

I agree the mechanical systems in our houses are regulated and have much in common. I don't see much in the way of telemetry and remote control interfaces being standardized or required, though. The HVAC system is as close as it gets, and even though my Carrier system has a bus to interface a remote control module, my contractor says he does not support it. Even if mine was so equipped and locally supported, it is a far cry from the systems monitored and controlled by a centralized controller in any of my cars.

When we move the discussion to other systems, there is no more standardization for monitor and control. I can add a main water shutoff valve and sensors at appropriate locations, but the way I tie it together with my Elk system will be different than if my neighbor does it to his, and there will be nothing equivalent to the Mazda dealer down the street to troubleshoot or maintain it. It gets even worse when we move on to the electrical power distribution system. I would have to replace any wall switches and add control wiring and interfaces if I want to go to a hard wired system, where the next guy might prefer adding plug-in switched outlets and a few replacement wall switches using carrier control all controlled by some other central system.

I see no sign that our house's mechanical systems will ever require any degree of standardization in the area of monitoring and control that will open the door to home automation. Not in the context of what happened to autos. If it does happen, I think it will be because of a future government mandate that the power companies be able to remotly manqage load shedding in periods of extremely high power consumption. Our electric power provider used to offer huge cost breaks for customers that were willing to have their water heaters separately metered and remotely controlled so they could be shut down from afar in heat waves. Few signed up. The government may require me to use CFLs instead of incandescent bulbs, and that I need incandescents to be able to dim my outdoor lights to 30% betrween 2230 and 0500 will not deter them.

 

[mterry63]

Those are good points as well.

I started with the automotive analogy because I suppose I'm the right age to have seen a signficant transformation in the engineering behind cars. My first car was a 70 Plymouth 'cuda. Great car, but about 99.5% mechanical. What electrical systems it had were all discrete analog. My current car is a 2008 BMW, an almost completely computerized beast. Convenience and safety are night and day between the two. I just started thinking about how that industry managed to make such a transformation in 30 years (discounting the difference in original price points) when my house is basically the same as 30 years ago. Hell, the standard light switches are exactly the same!

Clearly regulation played a part. Competition between vendors played a part. Lifestyle choices played a big part (there are probably many people who spend more waking time in their cars than their homes).

 

[Deane Johnson]

I see the lack of standards as one of the biggest hindrances. Most manufacturers have their own protocol and nothing works with anything else. It's all systematized within a given manufacturer.

The other problem is rapid obsolescence. Manufactures want cutting edge technology, along with some DIYs. I think that actually holds back the spread of HA into the general population.

Until there is a demand, builders won't build smart houses. There won't be a demand until HA goes mainstream with a stable and more universal platform at moderate cost.

Can you imagine getting VHS tape, or DVD movies off the ground if there had not been a universal standard?

 

[mterry63]

You're probably right that a standard is the biggest hinderance at this point. In this case the standard isn't so much a technology issue as it is a market penetration/strategy issue. There has to be some unification for mass-market adoption. Too many choices equates to no choice at all.

Maybe the home construction market hasn't evolved as quickly because the profit motivation isn't the same. Personally I've always considered real estate a ponzi scheme (No offense to those in that business) but if there is an automatic profit incentive I guess you don't have to be a transformational industry.

At this point the home automation business seems more like the "custom van" industry of the early 80's. Take a standard shell and make it what the customer wants.

 

[Neurorad]

As Deane said, it's manufacturer-specific. I'd have to say that your completely computerized '08 BMW has a HUGE distinct negative - it has to go to the dealer for service, unlike older BMW's. This hasn't yet been realized by BMW - resale values will nosedive.

I don't think it will take a universal standard for HA to become more widespread. You just need 1 manufacturer to do it right - easy installation, for the homeowner. Wireless TCP/IP, plug and play. Look to Logitech and Cisco. Wireless home networks are everywhere.

 

[Deane Johnson]

I would think another thing that would have to happen to make HA more appealing to the masses would be simplicity. Right now, software and systems are coming on the market that will do more and more, such as phone and internet, and the like.

What may be needed for more universal acceptance is the Genie garage door opener approach. Simple, simple, simple. Anyone could have one, where before the Genie came along, only the rich had garage door openers.

From this simple position, it could slowly grow for those so inclined, and stay simple for those who just wanted the basics.

It might make an interesting thread to figure out just what the basics should be.

 

[DavidL]

To continue with the car analogy, another interesting use of senors and memory is the safety systems in cars and light trucks. Following serious crashes, we can retrieve quite a bit of pre and post crash data from the airbag system (not quite "black box" data from an airplane, but similar). Heavy trucks store data in the engine module. This data can be obtained from a standardized plug, usually under the dash. The plug was standardized so mechanics can access almost all of the cars systems.

Wouldn't it be interesting if following a break-in to a building, the police show up with their laptops, plug into the building and can see what systems were operating and where and when the entry was made, or how about a plumber being able to determine when and where the leak started without ripping apart the walls.

If I was to guess where the government might require some type of standardized data recorder would be in heating systems so that the parameters could be checked for safe conditions.

True, but the data you mention (air bag deployment) isn't covered in the very limited "OBD2" information that is federally standaridized. The data that is covered deals with emissions and not more. Even the Odometer value isn't part of this standard. The mechanical plug is only somewhat standardized as, for example, Chrysler's SEC protocol uses different pins than other manufacturer protocols (only one example of many).

The home security systems do have their own standards that allow monitoring companies to view the common security info.

The plumber, much like the dealership automotive technician does not know much about "leaks" and their source other than to know one exists (a "DTC" or Diagnostic Trouble Code for automotive vs. a puddle on the floor for the plumber).

Anything more requires sensors, wiring , programming and support systems that raise the cost of the vehicle (and home) beyond what folks want to pay (typically).

 

[pete_c]

I believe the technology is there but standardization is still pretty far into the future. IE: My HVAC person's response to my wanting to zone my HVAC was to take magnetic covers and cover my returns on one floor in the winter and do the opposite in the summer. My previous home had two furnaces and two AC units. During construction of our home (a failed and eventually cancelled attempt by an inept builder in the MW) I indicated that I wanted to zone the HVAC and laid out some specifics for the returns. Initially the builder said no problem (before we signed the contract) and after we signed the contract to build our home the sales person said that "they" don't do that.

Yesterday I went house hunting looking at new construction nearby. I looked at about 4-5 spec homes. I saw something that looked like an attempt to provide stereo sound in a number of rooms. From a quick glance the work looked amateur at best but a selling point was made. (stereo sound in every room).

Personally I am into BMW's also and believe that the computerized systems (specifically the bus) has been updated to provide optimal service and is not overly complicated.

 

[Neurorad]

Personally I am into BMW's also and believe that the computerized systems (specifically the bus) has been updated to provide optimal service and is not overly complicated.

But you still need to bring it to the dealer for any diagnostics. Resale values will drop like rocks. These cars are too expensive to maintain, through a dealership. Can't be done. I can't afford to keep a 3-series outside of a maintenance agreement. I guess I'll worry about this in 4 years, when I hit 100K miles.

Without standardization, service diagnostics are too expensive. For the chosen few, it's an option (Crestron?), but for the masses it fails.

 

[mterry63]

It's possible you may have a point about 'dealer diagnostics', especially in the Luxury car market, but in reality ALL cars require computer diagnotics these days. The days of the shade tree mechanic are gone. Dead.

On the flip side, however, when I drove off the lot the dealer said 'see you in a year for your next oil change'. No car I've had to this point had a better maintenance interval. And as you pointed out, some car companies are including years of preventative maintenance and warrenty work in the price.

To go back to the house/car contrast - Today I paid $255 to a HVAC repairman for less than 60 minutes of work and a single starter capacitor that cost them $40 at most. Personally I'll call another company next time because I felt the cost was excessive. And there are plenty of other competitors out there to choose from.

This used to be the norm for car companies, but it seems that outside of brakes/exhuast/oil changes, the independant shop is losing ground because of specialization.

 

[DavidL]

MTerry, the "shade tree mechanic" for the most part have a scan tool, and are abreast of the most common issues, diagnostics and repairs. There is no doubt that the factory technician is more "tuned in" to the brand they specialize in, but most issues aren't "tough". If the shade tree mechanic hasn't kept up...he goes the way of the dinosaur.

"Luxury" cars aren't harder to diagnose for most issues. What makes it more difficult is their low sales volume doesn't warrant the aftermarket scan tool industry to prioritize building their multi OEM scan tools with support for Luxo brands. Which "forces" you to bring the vehicle to the dealership that has the factory specialized scan tool with full support for that brand.

 

[mterry63]

Sure, but I'd suggest they are no longer the "shade tree mechanic"

They are the intrepid souls who have decided to increase their skill and knowledge (and access to it using computerized tools). I have one myself, and you're right, for simple repairs they still can be relatively effective. For the most part you need the tool, and access to the Internet to help in understanding what the tool is telling you to do. You have moved from simple mechanic to diagnostician, adept in multiple fields of study.

Cars have gone from strickly mechanical systems (even when I was a kid) to complex electro-mechanical ones. The shade tree mechanic who have embraced these tools can still be functional when the mechanical system goes awry and the electronic system that monitors it is still functional and is producing useful diagnostics. When the electronic system goes awry, that's another story. At that point you have to rely on engineering education or start replacing entire systems until you find the problem. Most shade tree mechanics can't finance that kind of troubleshooting.

I guess the point is they are "systems" and no longer simple "machines".

To circle back to the automation discussion, I read recently about the failure of one of the industry's first touchscreen vendors. The founder had said we need to "stop calling it home automation" and that they don't call it "automobile automation". He's right about that. Manufacturers simply started adding features to cars that people wanted and made their lives easier and safer. I think this trend will be what eventually what drives the change in homes. You've probably seen Hyundai's commerical for their new $14K base model car with every automation feature a cocooner could want. Once every car has these features standard they will start moving OUT of the car.

I just never guessed 10-15 years ago when I started playing around in this field that the car would wind up leading the adoption. I think now it's obvious that it will.

 

[Neurorad]

M Terry - Anyone can do the basic OBDII scanning on their car, with a cheap PC-based or handheld device.

Most mechanics shops, and DIYers, can't afford the $20K necessary GT1 tool.

I think you're onto something, describing it as a 'system' - the individual devices in the car can't be sold individually. Maybe that is the reason for the auto adoption, preceding the home.