Help with receptacle control

[drvnbysound]

My cabinet lighting was also an afterthought. I added a receptacle above our cabinets, which is controlled by a switch below. Having said that, I did install a Zwave switch there, but any switch would control the receptacle above.

 

[drsprite]

My cabinet lighting was also an afterthought. I added a receptacle above our cabinets, which is controlled by a switch below. Having said that, I did install a Zwave switch there, but any switch would control the receptacle above.

 
Which Z-Wave products did you use? I am seeing a lot of Z-Wave information as it relates to Hubs and smartphones - but not so much "pairing" with each other offline.

 

[drvnbysound]

As I mentioned above, I am pretty certain that Zwave does not support "pairing" or any similar feature to allow a switch to control another device unless another controller (e.g. Elk M1G, CQC, Homeseer) is used to create that link via rules.
 
With Elk, for example, I could write a rule like this: Whenever Switch 1 is turned on, then turn on receptacle 1.
 
Here's an ASCII schematic of my setup:
====Line Power ==== Switch ====== Receptacle
 
Just as you have light switches that control lights, my receptacle is controlled by the switch. I just use a Zwave switch in that location, which in turn controls the receptacle and provides me with the ability to control it via Elk.

 

[drsprite]

Oh right, okay. Too many technologies to keep track of. Very cool stuff - it's just a matter of me wanting to pick a technology that'll suit me better in the long run. Sure it's the kitchen cabinet lights today, but tomorrow maybe I want to put the front porch lights on a Hub so that I can control them from my phone. 

 

[drvnbysound]

Sure. Most of us here do all of that via a primary automation controller; whether it be the M1G, OPII, Homeseer, CQC, etc. which time many technologies into a single interface. In some cases is a combination of a hardware based controller with a software one.
 
Here's some general information on the M1G: http://www.elkproducts.com/_literature_110948/M1_Residential_Consumer_Brochure

 

[ddennerline]

A Leviton Vizia+ VRCS2-MRZ (http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VRCS2-MRZ&section=44147&minisite=10251) can control a local load and additional set of lights. Each button is both a light switch and scene controller. I don’t use the extra scene capabilities. I bought because it allows two switches to fit into one receptacle.

 

[tmbrown97]

I wish I knew enough about ZWave to know its limitations.  From a UPB perspective, what you suggest is simple out of the box behavior; others suggest that ZWave might need an intermediary.
 
As far as smartphone control goes, there are lots of ways for any of these systems... UPB has the RUC or direct Elk/HAI control, or any of the mobile systems... as I'm sure ZWave has.
 
I see lighting as an auxiliary system so I don't control the lights directly from my phone, thought I can if I wish... I instead talk to the M1 which controls the lights; or I talk to Elve which also has direct access to the lights.  I'm not a fan of one app for the lights; another for the alarm; another for the thermostat; another for the Hue bulbs; etc.  I can open a single app to control garage doors, sprinklers, lights, HVAC, security, etc.

 

[Desert_AIP]

+1 for UPB
 
I have more than 70 devices spread across three separate buildings.
Light switches, outlets, dry contact IO modules, etc.
 
UPB integrates with controllers but also operates stand alone.
It is very flexible and reliable.
You can start small and build a system piece by piece with no trouble of future integration of new devices.

 

[LarrylLix]

Does UPB use "push technology" to update controllers?

IOW if a user went to a receptacle plug-in module and operated the device will the module send out an update to the controller as to it's current status or does the controller have to regularly poll the device to be updated?

I understand this become a real problem for people using Zwave so, for example, when a wireless keypad remote operate a device directly, the controller will not be aware of the device status change for 2-10 minutes depending on the number of devices installed and the speed of the polling cycle. This makes the use of some conditional logic ridiculous and useless if based on the status of a device.

 

[drvnbysound]

Larry,
 
With Zwave, the only company who has products that provide that status (without polling) is Leviton. I've heard that they have a patent on that, and no one wants to pay them for the license to use it (if they allowed it). I don't know if the latter is true or not; personally I thought this would be part of the Zwave protocol and assumed that they were the only ones who invested the time to implement it... either way, the Leviton devices do report their status back if there is a state change...  UNLESS (there is always an exception right?) the device was part of an Area/Group command. When the devices receive a command to turn on as a group, they [Leviton devices] do not automatically report their status.

 

[ano]

Yes, most UPB devices can be set to transmit their status change when it is pysically changed, or this can be turned off if you don't need status.

UNLESS (there is always an exception right?) the device was part of an Area/Group command. When the devices receive a command to turn on as a group, they [Leviton devices] do not automatically report their status.

And this is true with UPB also. I think the reason is that if MANY devices all changed at once, there would be too much trafic and messages wouldn't get through. When this occurs with HLC and an Omni panal, the panel will poll all the switches for status after a group are changed. This CAN take a bit of time.

 

[sjbauer]

With zwave, the devices you want to look are the ones that support the association class for directly controlling other devices. Cooper aspire devices (switches) will support associations. Leviton does not hold the patent but rather Lutron holds the patent for that. Some others use scenes to the same sort of thing.

 

[Dean Roddey]

There's no patent limiting Z-Wave devices reporting status, AFAIK, since It's built into the standard (the Association class.) The only issue is that it was built into the standard long after it was originally created, so a lot of devices don't support it. And, for some reason, a lot of new ones still don't implement it. But it any company can. Aeotec (Aeon Labs) has a pretty good range of devices that support associations, all locks do that I know of, One would think that it would become the norm these days. I can't imagine it adds any significant cost at this point.

 

[LarrylLix]

People converting to Insteon devices from Zwave or vice versa complain about Zwave a lot regarding this lack of reporting behaviour. It makes much Home Automation impossible to accomplish. If one just wants remote control of devices it may be fine but I wouldn't call that "automation".

 

[tmbrown97]

Well if you're going to nitpick the definition of automation, then I'm not sure that getting status makes for automation either - it's just control and visibility.  
 
Automation in its truest sense is when things are happening around the house based on different control factors like motion or door or light detection and automatically turning the lights on/off as needed.  Honestly, the status of the light isn't that important in an automation sense if your control system sends the on/off commands regardless of the current state.