mdesmarais
Active Member
I ended up getting about 18 months out of my replacement work. . .
Is this a blown cap on my motherboard?
- Thread starter beelzerob
- Start date
beelzerob
Senior Member
This is an older motherboard, though the fastest AMONG my older motherboards. I know I can get a replacement new board for under $100, but I just hated the idea of scrapping this one. But I know I won't be paying something like $50 for someone else to try and remove these caps...I'd got $20 at most I think. Above that, I'd rather destroy it myself and buy a new one.
pete_c
Guru
My HA server went out between Christmas and New Years while I was gone. I found the computer screen frozen with no BSOD. I rebooted it when I got home. It ran about 1/2 hour then rebooted itself. In a couple of hours it just kept rebooting. I was able to purchased exactly the same MB with the same CPU and memory for $69.00. You might want to look first.
When I took the motherboard out noticed a couple of bad caps. See picture attached.
Because of what happened to my HA server am repairing the bad cap MB and building a duplicate server.
When I took the motherboard out noticed a couple of bad caps. See picture attached.
Because of what happened to my HA server am repairing the bad cap MB and building a duplicate server.
beelzerob
Senior Member
Well, I'm not PARTICULARLY attached to this motherboard, other than the fact that I have it and thus doesn't cost me anything more. I had thought about trying to find it used on ebay, but then....I'd probably have the exact same problem with bloated caps on it. So there's no hope there.
The freezing problem I have is exactly the same as you mention...no BSOD, it just stops responding at all. I have to manually reboot it. It's usually good for at least several days after that.
As it turns out, I think I have my solution. There's a very small little electrical shop here at work. they aren't a part of our company, but lease the space in the building and there's at least a relationship between their company and ours. So I called them and asked if they'd do simple little work for a nobody like me, and she said "Sure, bring it on down, we'll remove the old caps and put in the new ones." It's heavily implied that there will be no cost for this, and I'm not sure about timetable, it may not be ready until monday...but I can deal with that.
If this works out, it's great! I have time tonight to do 1 last back up of that PC and then tear it apart to bring in the board tomorrow.
sweet!
The freezing problem I have is exactly the same as you mention...no BSOD, it just stops responding at all. I have to manually reboot it. It's usually good for at least several days after that.
As it turns out, I think I have my solution. There's a very small little electrical shop here at work. they aren't a part of our company, but lease the space in the building and there's at least a relationship between their company and ours. So I called them and asked if they'd do simple little work for a nobody like me, and she said "Sure, bring it on down, we'll remove the old caps and put in the new ones." It's heavily implied that there will be no cost for this, and I'm not sure about timetable, it may not be ready until monday...but I can deal with that.
If this works out, it's great! I have time tonight to do 1 last back up of that PC and then tear it apart to bring in the board tomorrow.
sweet!
pete_c
Guru
Good news on the fixes provided by the small electrical shop.
I might send mine to Badcaps (even though I ordered the caps). My Omni Pro II does the security/lighting/HVAC part of the automation but my HS HA server does the rest running hundreds of scripts.
The board pictures above were after 5 years 24/7 running of the HA server. Just swapped out PS this afternoon as an extra saftey precaution.
Looking also to migrate to a small footprint mini-itx based HA server. So far in my testing I've had premature failures (after 2 years) with 3 out of about 6 mini-itx boards. The "good" ones have been Via-Epia based (too slow though) and Intel Atom based mini-itx boards. All of the generic P4 and dual core MB's have failed me with bad caps in two years or so of running them (firewalls / touch screens). Also failed after two years or so are mini-PC celeron based boards (with bad caps). I have one Aopen mini-pc (dual core) still running fine though (gets warm) after two years. Might look for an "industrial" or server based mini-itx style MB for HA server.
I might send mine to Badcaps (even though I ordered the caps). My Omni Pro II does the security/lighting/HVAC part of the automation but my HS HA server does the rest running hundreds of scripts.
The board pictures above were after 5 years 24/7 running of the HA server. Just swapped out PS this afternoon as an extra saftey precaution.
Looking also to migrate to a small footprint mini-itx based HA server. So far in my testing I've had premature failures (after 2 years) with 3 out of about 6 mini-itx boards. The "good" ones have been Via-Epia based (too slow though) and Intel Atom based mini-itx boards. All of the generic P4 and dual core MB's have failed me with bad caps in two years or so of running them (firewalls / touch screens). Also failed after two years or so are mini-PC celeron based boards (with bad caps). I have one Aopen mini-pc (dual core) still running fine though (gets warm) after two years. Might look for an "industrial" or server based mini-itx style MB for HA server.
beelzerob
Senior Member
Woot! Job done that same day, got the board back in the PC, fired it up, and everything works fine!!
And just now, after only running for 10 hours...it froze up again.
:axe:
:nutz: :horse:
Well, I guess at least I can take solace that it's NOT the capacitors.....
For this kind of hard freeze (no warning, no BSOD, it just stops responding to all types of inputs)....what is the likelihood it's hardware vs software? I think software is going to be the easiest to check, though even that's not easy. I can reinstall WHS and CQC, and *nothing* else (which there really hasn't BEEN much else), and see how stable that is.
*sigh*
And just now, after only running for 10 hours...it froze up again.
:axe:
:nutz: :horse: Well, I guess at least I can take solace that it's NOT the capacitors.....
For this kind of hard freeze (no warning, no BSOD, it just stops responding to all types of inputs)....what is the likelihood it's hardware vs software? I think software is going to be the easiest to check, though even that's not easy. I can reinstall WHS and CQC, and *nothing* else (which there really hasn't BEEN much else), and see how stable that is.
*sigh*
pete_c
Guru
You fixed a probable concern though replacing swollen caps on it. Not totally sure but typically software gives you some sort of event or warning as HW doesn't give you advance warning...other than the weird freezing. Check your CPU temperatures and BIOS temperature shutdown settings (if its in the BIOS). The 3.0Ghz P4 in the HA server runs pretty warm with 50-60C being average.
I also replaced my HA server PS yesterday. As a test I also took removed power supply and put it in my FreeNAS box. (loaded with a 4 disk hot swap array, 2 IDE and 2 addition SATA drives - a pull a bit on PS) and funny thing is that the PC wouldn't boot giving me odd BIOS beeps. I guess then I could say that the PS was also failing. My HA box only has one HD in it and nothing more so there isn't much of a draw on the PS in it. I put the "old" PS back into the FreeNas Box and it powered normally and put a new PS in the HA box.
Yesterday my wifes PC locked up in a similiar manner but when booting. Panic set in (already have WAF issues regarding OmniStat). I set her up with an alternate PC. I took hers apart. Its another Mini-Itx based MB PC in a very small case. This one had solid caps. I ran check disk on it. All appeared OK. I then let it proceed to boot normally. It did and an Adobe flash update window came up. Other than that all was OK with the PC. I let it run most of yesterday with no issues. Its running XP Pro SP3 with all current MS updates and patches. Its running AVG and Malwarebytes. Scheduled scans are in the wee hours of the morning. My only guess is that AVG rebooted in the middle of the night concurrently Flash was looking to update and they conflicted locking up the PC. No BSOD no event logs...its set up again for her to use and she used it this morning with no issues. So in recap my process in checking was:
1 - Booting up with an XP Disk and running check disk on it.
2 - Booting up in safe mode and looking for anything wierd.
3 - running scandisk on it.
4 - booting/rebooting a few times
5 - letting it run for a day without using it
I also replaced my HA server PS yesterday. As a test I also took removed power supply and put it in my FreeNAS box. (loaded with a 4 disk hot swap array, 2 IDE and 2 addition SATA drives - a pull a bit on PS) and funny thing is that the PC wouldn't boot giving me odd BIOS beeps. I guess then I could say that the PS was also failing. My HA box only has one HD in it and nothing more so there isn't much of a draw on the PS in it. I put the "old" PS back into the FreeNas Box and it powered normally and put a new PS in the HA box.
Yesterday my wifes PC locked up in a similiar manner but when booting. Panic set in (already have WAF issues regarding OmniStat). I set her up with an alternate PC. I took hers apart. Its another Mini-Itx based MB PC in a very small case. This one had solid caps. I ran check disk on it. All appeared OK. I then let it proceed to boot normally. It did and an Adobe flash update window came up. Other than that all was OK with the PC. I let it run most of yesterday with no issues. Its running XP Pro SP3 with all current MS updates and patches. Its running AVG and Malwarebytes. Scheduled scans are in the wee hours of the morning. My only guess is that AVG rebooted in the middle of the night concurrently Flash was looking to update and they conflicted locking up the PC. No BSOD no event logs...its set up again for her to use and she used it this morning with no issues. So in recap my process in checking was:
1 - Booting up with an XP Disk and running check disk on it.
2 - Booting up in safe mode and looking for anything wierd.
3 - running scandisk on it.
4 - booting/rebooting a few times
5 - letting it run for a day without using it
beelzerob
Senior Member
All very good ideas, and very helpful.
I've had a cpu fan fail on me before, but that was noticed by the PC shutting itself off, not just locking up...but I suppose different manufacturers deal with it differently. Unfortunately, so far the symptoms are far from reliable....it can go days without locking up, or mere hours like last night. Last I checked, the cpu fan WAS running, though. But you're right. I'll let it run for like a day, then reboot into bios and see how the cpu temps are holding. Maybe the interface between cpu and heatsink got jarred somehow....
I've got a spare power supply, so I'll try that next. I'll just leave it laying on the case instead of a full swap out, it'll be easier that way.
I'm not sure how to boot into XP and do just a checkdisk. I'm running WHS on this, I would think it would be pretty rigorous about disk health. Maybe there's someway to have it scan the disks? Something this intermittent could be a disk failure...if the disk failed to respond, that's possible to lock up the system, i guess.
Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions. Keep 'em comin!
I've had a cpu fan fail on me before, but that was noticed by the PC shutting itself off, not just locking up...but I suppose different manufacturers deal with it differently. Unfortunately, so far the symptoms are far from reliable....it can go days without locking up, or mere hours like last night. Last I checked, the cpu fan WAS running, though. But you're right. I'll let it run for like a day, then reboot into bios and see how the cpu temps are holding. Maybe the interface between cpu and heatsink got jarred somehow....
I've got a spare power supply, so I'll try that next. I'll just leave it laying on the case instead of a full swap out, it'll be easier that way.
I'm not sure how to boot into XP and do just a checkdisk. I'm running WHS on this, I would think it would be pretty rigorous about disk health. Maybe there's someway to have it scan the disks? Something this intermittent could be a disk failure...if the disk failed to respond, that's possible to lock up the system, i guess.
Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions. Keep 'em comin!
pete_c
Guru
UR right. Heating/BIOS issues just shut it down with no warning. Typically too if the 3-wire CPU fan is broken or not connected PC won't boot at all. It doesn't lock up the PC. The power supply though might. Also check your system/application event log. They "may" offer clues. Yesterday I would have been better off leaving the PS out of the case to test it in that it took a while (one time) to install, route all of the cables accidently disconnect the 6 SATA cables (flimsey connections) and boot it. I don't have a workbench set up so did it all on a chair next to the "server rack".
For check disk and scan disk :
You can boot up with just about any MS boot disk (XP, Server, WHS). Boot into safe mode command prompt. Once in command prompt it will ask you for the Administrative password of the installation on the hard drive. Put that in for access. Then just run:
chkdsk C: /R
This will locate any bad sectors and recovers readable information. Sometimes this takes only a few minutes other times its longer (maybe an hour?)
I would also do your "D" drive partition if it exists.
For "Scandisk" you can run that while in the OS. Right click on the drive and the option is there. For your root drive it will state something about it being locked and that it will run a scan disk with the next boot which it does.
You can check your SMARTDISK stats for premature disk failure running SpeedFAN (free application).
Neighbor just called me - computer meltdown - WAF work related stuff....panic mode...
For check disk and scan disk :
You can boot up with just about any MS boot disk (XP, Server, WHS). Boot into safe mode command prompt. Once in command prompt it will ask you for the Administrative password of the installation on the hard drive. Put that in for access. Then just run:
chkdsk C: /R
This will locate any bad sectors and recovers readable information. Sometimes this takes only a few minutes other times its longer (maybe an hour?)
I would also do your "D" drive partition if it exists.
For "Scandisk" you can run that while in the OS. Right click on the drive and the option is there. For your root drive it will state something about it being locked and that it will run a scan disk with the next boot which it does.
You can check your SMARTDISK stats for premature disk failure running SpeedFAN (free application).
Neighbor just called me - computer meltdown - WAF work related stuff....panic mode...
beelzerob
Senior Member
Well, let me say that if there's anything I'm happy about, it's that both of our main desktop PC's (his and hers) have a RAID1 (it's already saved me twice from bad disks), and now we also have WHS (at least when it's running again)...so we've never been so backed up and protected.
Of course, it really only saves from hardware failure, not the malicious (or microsoft) kind of software failures.
I'll try what you suggested when I get home. A flakey PSU seems kinda unlikely...I'd blame random reboots on that more often. I'll check the event log, that's a good idea. And make sure I left Windows Updates disabled. And I'll check all the disks.
I think I'll move this to my blog (since it's not blown cap related anymore), so it might serve the greater good as far as how to troubleshoot a very troublesome problem.
Of course, it really only saves from hardware failure, not the malicious (or microsoft) kind of software failures.
I'll try what you suggested when I get home. A flakey PSU seems kinda unlikely...I'd blame random reboots on that more often. I'll check the event log, that's a good idea. And make sure I left Windows Updates disabled. And I'll check all the disks.
I think I'll move this to my blog (since it's not blown cap related anymore), so it might serve the greater good as far as how to troubleshoot a very troublesome problem.
beelzerob
Senior Member
Well, the blog ain't working for me, so I guess I'll keep it here for now.
Ok, this is what I've tried since the last freeze:
1) Rebooted to bios, checked the cpu temps. Perfectly fine. Also set a shutdown temp of 65C, so it should shutdown, not freeze, if its a cpu issue. CPU fan works just fine.
2) Ran the MS memory test I've got. Let it run for over an hour, no errors found.
3) Checked all the system logs. There were a few issues, something about a serial port type error, and also something about "it shut down abruptly", which Im guessing is the freeze (Im thinking it notices when the PC comes back up that it didn't get to save it's normal data out or something like that). I cleared all the logs so if it freezes again I'll know it's all stuff that's happened since then.
4) Changed out the power supply.
And the result?? It lasted about 24 hours. This problem seems to be happening a lot more frequently, which again points to the idea of a hardware problem. I wonder if the caps got bad enough to damage something else....
Other than checking the discs, I'm thinking the only thing left to try is a complete system reload. I think I'll throw in a spare hard drive, just load WinXP on it, and let it sit there and run for a while. If it freezes up from that, I know it's not the software, and it would HAVE to be motherboard-level hardware (since I'd have removed all the disks too.) Ya, that seems the quickest way to discern the issue.
Ok, this is what I've tried since the last freeze:
1) Rebooted to bios, checked the cpu temps. Perfectly fine. Also set a shutdown temp of 65C, so it should shutdown, not freeze, if its a cpu issue. CPU fan works just fine.
2) Ran the MS memory test I've got. Let it run for over an hour, no errors found.
3) Checked all the system logs. There were a few issues, something about a serial port type error, and also something about "it shut down abruptly", which Im guessing is the freeze (Im thinking it notices when the PC comes back up that it didn't get to save it's normal data out or something like that). I cleared all the logs so if it freezes again I'll know it's all stuff that's happened since then.
4) Changed out the power supply.
And the result?? It lasted about 24 hours. This problem seems to be happening a lot more frequently, which again points to the idea of a hardware problem. I wonder if the caps got bad enough to damage something else....
Other than checking the discs, I'm thinking the only thing left to try is a complete system reload. I think I'll throw in a spare hard drive, just load WinXP on it, and let it sit there and run for a while. If it freezes up from that, I know it's not the software, and it would HAVE to be motherboard-level hardware (since I'd have removed all the disks too.) Ya, that seems the quickest way to discern the issue.
