Landscape lights

[pete_c]

The amperage draw will be the higest when you turn it on depending on the 12VAC draw or load.

With a direct connection to the circuit and just turning on and off the breaker my basement lighting would flicker. You could also utilize an amp probe and do the same. If you only have a few 12VAC lamps drawing then it will not be an issue. If you go the maximum capacity (900 watts) of the toroidal transformer then the amperage draw will be highest when you turn it on.

Even though the variety of appliance switches were rated at XX amps they tended to trip the breakers (my breakers) no matter what (which I could really never figure out). Best to give it a try with some applicance switch (give them all a try; they are relatively inexpensive) rated at XX amps first. As I stated above only the very "old" legacy X10 appliance switch worked for me.

Reflecting a bit now on what I wrote; I was trying to do the landscaping lighting automation stuff inexpensively without really spending $100 (or more) per switch per transformer. That said I learned a bit doing similiar with the chandelier lighting (also purchasing a chanelier "lift" and installing it in the attic - expensive and a pita effort as the device weighed more than my garage door opener (think it was around $700 and the labor to install it would have probably been around $300?) and I had to run a separate circuit for it and spending more than $100 for a UPB PCS switch with some big heatsinks on it; then later automating the multiple cans in the kitchen trying to keep the automation switch costs low; then learning that I really did need a high amperage switch for the 8-10 cans or so it was turning on).

The if you really don't want to play around with this stuff is to go with something like a high amperage switch independant of the controling voltage switch or maybe even better would be a 30 AMP load control switch like the attached links. I went to four of what you purchased and four separate switches on four separate circuits and breakers.

I used a variety of toroidal transformers and most of them were large with big footprints. (multiple voltage taps and circuits). My favorite was the first one I installed which didn't have multiple voltages but had multiple circuits each with breakers in a small fooprint box (difficult though to work in). It was the most expensive one though. The last one I installed before going to the LED lighting was one made by Vista lighting (bought one for me and two for my sister).

http://q-tran.com/

http://www.vistapro....catid=4&typid=7

Here are examples of load control switches (just google them really quick here).

The first link is a UPB switch, next is Insteon and then Z-wave in no particular order.

http://www.homecontr...&category=73338

http://www.insteon.n...troller-NO.html

http://store.homesee...e-P407C246.aspx

 

[Buddy]

The plan is to plug the transformer into an insteon recepticle and have my isy99 control the recepticle for the on and off of landscape lights. If I plan to have the lights around my pool area turn on at different time then the lights around my house and at different time then my light that will be located in another area of my backyard do I need multiple transformers that will each be connected into their on recepticle?

 

[pete_c]

It might be easier to utilize two transformers.

You can maybe use relays to switch the 12VAC outputs of the single transformer.

I'm guessing that someone on the forum might already be doing something similiar.

Each of the low voltage circuits on my old transformers had auto circuit breakers on them similiar to a 120VAC circuit breaker.

I looked at one of the disconnected transformers just now (the Vista and another one that looks just like the VIsta)

There a "jumper" that appears next to the HV side input and I am guessing it is also switching on the HV side via a timer?

One of the very first toroidal landscaping transformers (other than the one I mentioned) that I purchased did have a timer plus a light circuit.

I forgot the wattage on it but it was totally sealed and one day it just quit working and I couldn't get to the timing circuits because they were sealed in some sort of epoxy (guess too because it was made for use outdoors). I ended up throwing that one into the trash because there was no way for me to get to the timing circuit on it.

 

[tmbrown97]

You got it - your choices are either multiple transformers, or using a big enough one and using relays to switch the zones on/off. If going the relay route, you need to do the calculations to make sure you're not going over the rated amperage for the relays.

 

[Buddy]

Im not very knowledgable with relays. Where can I read about how a relay works if connected to a transformer and how does the installation get done. Very interested to understand all my options to be able to choose the best one

 

[oberkc]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned LED replacement bulbs as an option, rather than going with high-powered relays and such.

do I need multiple transformers that will each be connected into their on recepticle?

Yes. By the way, this is how I do it...four transformers controlled by four insteon appliancelincs, using ISY-994. All lighting is LED. All transformers are 50w capacity, none using more than 15 (according to my Killawatt). Wokks great!

 

[pete_c]

okerkc, mentioned my LV/LED endeavor near the top of the OP stuff....way easier with LED's and smaller transformers than it "was" with 4 large 1000 watt commercial transformers and all incandescent lighting....started really slow with only 2-3 zones initially coverting them to LEDs a couple of years back...then this summer converting about 12 zones of lighting. IE: the "deck" was using some indirect lighting with 7 watt bayonet style incandescent lamps; found these little .3 watt LEDs which give off as much light as the older ones (1 zone with 12 little lamps on the deck)....also switching now to pure 12VDC LED lamps lately...

BTW neighbor has a separate transformer for his inground pool lighting; but utilized 16/18 guage LV wire...and you can see the end of the line lamps are really dim due to the lower AC voltage on his 100 foot runs....and another separate transformer for the LV lighting in the pool which changes colors (nice little effect)...personally I just have one 12VDC head light looking lamp on one side of the pool which dims but is a whole separate light, circuit et al...

 

[JimS]

I would be interested to know specific brand/model/where to buy for LED bulbs people have found to work well and have good life. Also if they are retrofit bulbs running off AC or if they require DC. I think most retrofit bulbs include a rectifier so they can run off of AC but most LED sets use DC. I could do either but currently have AC with some 4W wedge base and some halogen 10W and 20W bi-pin base. I have had some LED bulbs fail fairly quickly so want to get ones that actually give long life. I think much of it is related to poor design and how hot the LEDs get in operation. Would be interesting to get temperatures of various bulbs for comparison.

I found these that seem to have satisfied users:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005NYRN62/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

This bipin replacement had good reviews but seems to be no longer available - the seller doesn't have any products listed:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0064GMHVO/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00


I have been replacing cheap fixtures with better ones and eliminating the fixture connectors that poke into the side of the main wires. Am using wire nuts with sealant on the new ones. The poke in connectors you get on consumer grade stuff go bad over time due to water leakage and corrosion.

 

[wuench]

I am using those led lights. They seem to last pretty well, the only issue I have had is they don't always fit snugly into the Malibu socket base. In the cases where they were loose I wedged a small clip in there to hold them tight to the contacts. I use LED spot replacements too, they are lasting about 2-3 years on average.

 

[pete_c]

Here I bulk purchased them from China.

That said the costs in bulk for these same designed and probably manufactured LED lights were $2-$4 each.

Mostly they have lasted a long time except for the last batch that I purchased. It was me not paying attention to the design though. Its really difficult to source these as most of the times its a huge number of vendors selling the same type and design of LED with prices which vary tremendously.

The methodology of the sale description though drives the prices ridiculously high considering how much they cost to manufacture. (IE: LED, low power, hours lifetime). IE: taking the price of an old incandescent / halogen LV lamp and multiplying it by the number of hours it'll work equals the new number for a similiar lighting LED lamp; guess it sells though.

Funny though that last batch of LV LEDs that I purchased that cost $2-$3 each was selling close to $30 each before Christmas here and folks were buying them like candy.

 

[dgage]

Pete_c - does that mean we can get a bulk purchase going for some LED bulbs? I'll help coordinate.

 

[oberkc]

[sub]I use led bulbs from superbright LED (online). Watch for light color (soft white) and pick the style that matches your fixture. I also am seeing some selection of replacement bulbs at the normal outlets, such as Lowes, HD, etc... The issue that I notice is that light output degrades noticeably in a few years. [/sub]

okerkc, mentioned my LV/LED endeavor near the top of the OP stuff....

I missed that one. Apparently, so did most of the others. Enough, I say, of the relay discussions!

I have been replacing cheap fixtures with better ones and eliminating the fixture connectors that poke into the side of the main wires

Absolutely! Solder and seal for me.

 

[pete_c]

dgage,

I just wrote to the companies and asked about the pricing. No need for a group buy as their pricing is very reasonable. Most of them shipped the LED lamps for free.

I'm starting to move to pure DC versus AC LED lamps a bit at a time now.

Pick some commonly utilized LED lamps and lets see if we can get them even cheapers.

Here been purchasing them in sets of 12. It doesn't hurt to give it a try for a bulk purchase.

The level of business etiquette is at an all time high these days. IE: I had an issue with one particular product and they paid for a return DHL label such that they could examine the product for faults et al after my complaints. Considering the price (cheap) I paid for the product; much effort went in to ensure a quality purchase.

My LED replacement stuff post is here:

http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/22735-landscape-lights/#entry185718

More stuff is over here:

http://forums.homese...ad.php?t=151028

That whole outdoor landscaping and decorative lighting is really big business. My neighbor payed close to $4000 for his outdoor lighting endeavors. (house and landscaping stuff and pool stuff). (funny in a way though that they ran it all to one breaker on the fuse panel and it keeps tripping the breakers when he added his Christmas lighting to the mix).

 

[dgage]

Thanks for the info Pete. Now if I ever get my kitchen done...

 

[gatchel]

Im not very knowledgable with relays. Where can I read about how a relay works if connected to a transformer and how does the installation get done. Very interested to understand all my options to be able to choose the best one

Relay overload...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay