Need Some Driveway Sensor Advice

[upstatemike]

Let me know if you figure out a nice solution. I am in an area where we get lots of snow, so I can't even use the photobeam setup, and have been trying to figure this out for years.

One of my photobeams will be inside the garage to detect packages so no issue there. The one outside will just cover the steps up to the porch. The specs say snow and fog are not an issue so I'm hoping our winters will not be a problem.

 

[upstatemike]

So, you say you want to catch all of the traffic but do you really? I've found that knowing the doorbell rang is pretty good. Having the motion video from the camera (without an alert) for review confirms for me that I didnt miss anything.

Unfortunately the doorbell system is already in place but the delivery guys don't bother to press it unless a signature is required for the package.

 

[123]

If you ever consider buying a DVR, many come with fairly sophisticated video-motion detection. The image is divided into many small cells where each cell can be individually disabled in order to ignore activity in that part of the image. You can also adjust the sensitivity to motion and the dwell time ... so you can ignore small, fast-moving objects (birds, leaves, etc). Video-motion detection enables the DVR to record only when there is appropriate content. When triggered to record, it can also activate a relay-contact, send email, etc.

I've used video-motion detection for cameras installed in ATM machines. You want the DVR to record only when a client is using the ATM and not distant pedestrians nor other transient content.

 

[upstatemike]

If you ever consider buying a DVR, many come with fairly sophisticated video-motion detection. The image is divided into many small cells where each cell can be individually disabled in order to ignore activity in that part of the image. You can also adjust the sensitivity to motion and the dwell time ... so you can ignore small, fast-moving objects (birds, leaves, etc). Video-motion detection enables the DVR to record only when there is appropriate content. When triggered to record, it can also activate a relay-contact, send email, etc.

I've used video-motion detection for cameras installed in ATM machines. You want the DVR to record only when a client is using the ATM and not distant pedestrians nor other transient content.

Another problem I have with video motion is that I have IP cameras with Pan/Tilt so they are not fixed on a particular area (I actuallly use the pan/tilt a lot more than I expected I would!) I need the alert to bring my attention to the cameras and then I move them around to get the best view of what is going on. I also don't need to record anything so much as I need to see what is happening in real time.

 

[electron]

video motion detection is useless in this area IMO. Once it starts snowing, it will just keep triggering 24/7, for 6 months

 

[drozwood90]

If you ever consider buying a DVR, many come with fairly sophisticated video-motion detection. The image is divided into many small cells where each cell can be individually disabled in order to ignore activity in that part of the image. You can also adjust the sensitivity to motion and the dwell time ... so you can ignore small, fast-moving objects (birds, leaves, etc). Video-motion detection enables the DVR to record only when there is appropriate content. When triggered to record, it can also activate a relay-contact, send email, etc.

I've used video-motion detection for cameras installed in ATM machines. You want the DVR to record only when a client is using the ATM and not distant pedestrians nor other transient content.

Another problem I have with video motion is that I have IP cameras with Pan/Tilt so they are not fixed on a particular area (I actuallly use the pan/tilt a lot more than I expected I would!) I need the alert to bring my attention to the cameras and then I move them around to get the best view of what is going on. I also don't need to record anything so much as I need to see what is happening in real time.

Here what I have done...when I used to design Thermal Imagers....
Why don't you slew to queue?

You set a P/T to have "areas" of interest. Each area is monitored by a motion sensor. When the sensor trips, the system would disable the motion detection, move the camera, then re-enable the motion detection. If you have masking enabled, change the masking for the appropriate area (although masking in this case is difficult if it's not dynamic...so I wouldn't recommend it).

--Dan

 

[drozwood90]

video motion detection is useless in this area IMO. Once it starts snowing, it will just keep triggering 24/7, for 6 months

Not if you tune it properly. As I have already stated...once I tuned mine, I NEVER had a false trip in 8 months (Some summer, fall and heavy winter (we had a blizzard in Utica, where I used to live)).

Again, I used to design this kind of hardware for a living. It's VERY possible. You just need to have the proper tuning controls over the video stream.

For example, some of these things are so smart, they can detect when someone sits down and leaves something behind (such as a bagged up bomb), loitering detection (someone is standing near something they shouldn't for too long), intention path detection (if someone is walking near something you don't want them in...it's OK, but if a certain pattern is detected (over many minutes) we consider that they are only walking near there to try to make it LOOK like they are there by accident...), etc. Some REALLY crazy stuff.

I'm using SuperVisionCam, it does color based masking (if you color something black, ALL colors in that area are ignored, if you color something blue, all things blue, green, yellow are ignored, but other colors can trip). It does dynamic presence calculations (so if it starts to snow, than there will be LOTS of small motion, which can be ignored, BUT if there are LOTS of LARGE motion (user defined what "large" is) that could be a bunch of people walking in and out of your house with stuff, so trip). Again, tuning for your specific area is the key. It's somewhat difficult, and takes time. I found the best thing was to just have a simple X10 thermal trigger on anything. Let the camera wake up (instant on), then start detection. I've captured Deer, but never my neighbor's cat fighting with a local fox.

--Dan

--Dan

 

[upstatemike]

Here what I have done...when I used to design Thermal Imagers....
Why don't you slew to queue?

You set a P/T to have "areas" of interest. Each area is monitored by a motion sensor. When the sensor trips, the system would disable the motion detection, move the camera, then re-enable the motion detection. If you have masking enabled, change the masking for the appropriate area (although masking in this case is difficult if it's not dynamic...so I wouldn't recommend it).

--Dan

Mainly because that is way more effort than I want to expend on this... I have a lot of other projects in the queue! Once I find the right sensors I expect to complet this whole project in a couple of hours and then move on to the next thing (hiding several speakers in the bushes for surround sound halloween effects triggered off my newly installed and highly reliable sensors).

 

[upstatemike]

video motion detection is useless in this area IMO. Once it starts snowing, it will just keep triggering 24/7, for 6 months

Not if you tune it properly. As I have already stated...once I tuned mine, I NEVER had a false trip in 8 months (Some summer, fall and heavy winter (we had a blizzard in Utica, where I used to live)).

Again, I used to design this kind of hardware for a living. It's VERY possible. You just need to have the proper tuning controls over the video stream.

For example, some of these things are so smart, they can detect when someone sits down and leaves something behind (such as a bagged up bomb), loitering detection (someone is standing near something they shouldn't for too long), intention path detection (if someone is walking near something you don't want them in...it's OK, but if a certain pattern is detected (over many minutes) we consider that they are only walking near there to try to make it LOOK like they are there by accident...), etc. Some REALLY crazy stuff.

I'm using SuperVisionCam, it does color based masking (if you color something black, ALL colors in that area are ignored, if you color something blue, all things blue, green, yellow are ignored, but other colors can trip). It does dynamic presence calculations (so if it starts to snow, than there will be LOTS of small motion, which can be ignored, BUT if there are LOTS of LARGE motion (user defined what "large" is) that could be a bunch of people walking in and out of your house with stuff, so trip). Again, tuning for your specific area is the key. It's somewhat difficult, and takes time. I found the best thing was to just have a simple X10 thermal trigger on anything. Let the camera wake up (instant on), then start detection. I've captured Deer, but never my neighbor's cat fighting with a local fox.

--Dan

--Dan

One thing that would be useful to me would be a camera that could do a retina scan of people as they walk up and then have my HA system announce them by name... but I can only budget about $500 for this feature.

 

[beelzerob]

One thing that would be useful to me would be a camera that could do a retina scan of people as they walk up and then have my HA system announce them by name... but I can only budget about $500 for this feature.

I'd insert a funny quip here about eyeballs and green lasers, but ya know....humor and safety and all that.

 

[upstatemike]

I have 3 of these motion sensors on the outside of my house and never have a false trigger ( unless you count the deer and lost bear ).

http://www.crowelec.com/product_detail.asp?param=93

Any false alarms would be known, as an announcement is made through the house each time. Except at night, because of the deer.

StevenE

Looking at their site I can't identify an online dealer that has their stuff. Where did you get yours from?

 

[123]

drozwood90 hit the nail on the head. Video-analytics is hot. It won't be long before this technology comes down in price and you'll have inexpensive, RF cameras that record only what you want; all video-processing is onboard and follows the rules you've specified. The images are buffered locally and/or streamed to a file-server or Network Video Recorder (NVR).

A DVRs ability to record and store video-evidence is a valuable asset for commercial, and residential, security. Many brands offer a "pre-event" feature where they record several seconds before an event occurs (it is isn't prescient; it simply records continuously into a circular buffer). "Pre-event" lets you see what led to the event. Continuous live monitoring of cameras is for retail operations and casinos (who also record events as video-evidence). Automated recording using video-analytics is the trend for gathering video-evidence.

 

[drozwood90]

One thing that would be useful to me would be a camera that could do a retina scan of people as they walk up and then have my HA system announce them by name... but I can only budget about $500 for this feature.

My total cost for this setup (for my front door) was
...::|| about ||::...
$25 (with shipping) for the capture card
$0 sourceforge drivers
$10 X10 camera (they came as part of a deal...normally I think they are like $30)
$29.99 for software
$5.00 X10 sensor (came as part of a deal...I dunno the actual price as part of the deal)

So...for about $65 I got this setup, capable of 4 camera inputs.

$185 I can do 4 camera inputs
Add $35 ea. for pan/tilts...

So...sarcasm aside, what I'm saying is for LESS than your budget you can have 4 cameras. I know if you wanted to do this with the stuff I used to design...4 camera inputs, 4 pan tilts and a DVR with similar motion detection algorithms would have been about $200K. Then again...my pan tilts were DUAL thermal (true thermal...not near IR) and optical cameras (with Near IR).

--Dan

 

[deranged]

I have 3 of these motion sensors on the outside of my house and never have a false trigger ( unless you count the deer and lost bear ).

http://www.crowelec.com/product_detail.asp?param=93

Any false alarms would be known, as an announcement is made through the house each time. Except at night, because of the deer.

StevenE

Looking at their site I can't identify an online dealer that has their stuff. Where did you get yours from?

At the time, this was the cheapest place I could find, that was oct 2005.

http://www.spytown.com/search--by-part-num...on-sensors.html

StevenE

 

[mustangcoupe]

One thing that would be useful to me would be a camera that could do a retina scan of people as they walk up and then have my HA system announce them by name... but I can only budget about $500 for this feature.

My total cost for this setup (for my front door) was
...::|| about ||::...
$25 (with shipping) for the capture card
$0 sourceforge drivers
$10 X10 camera (they came as part of a deal...normally I think they are like $30)
$29.99 for software
$5.00 X10 sensor (came as part of a deal...I dunno the actual price as part of the deal)

So...for about $65 I got this setup, capable of 4 camera inputs.

$185 I can do 4 camera inputs
Add $35 ea. for pan/tilts...

So...sarcasm aside, what I'm saying is for LESS than your budget you can have 4 cameras. I know if you wanted to do this with the stuff I used to design...4 camera inputs, 4 pan tilts and a DVR with similar motion detection algorithms would have been about $200K. Then again...my pan tilts were DUAL thermal (true thermal...not near IR) and optical cameras (with Near IR).

--Dan

Dan can you give us more information on your capture card you use?