New Construction, am I on the right track?

[reko19]

This can be done but I wanted more control (touch screen/ipod touch) then the ELK would allow or I found easier in a third party software.


............

And to add with Lou's comments There are some supported Hard wired thermostats that work with the XSP. I use a TR-40 from RCS.

Thank you for your replies.
So M1XZW is not nesesarrily the only option for Zwave interface? I was going to use Vera2 based on excellent reviews for iPhone software. But reading some more, looks like there is an iPhone software for Elk as well. Then I don't really need Vera2, any recommendations for Zwave interface?

 

[apostolakisl]

This can be done but I wanted more control (touch screen/ipod touch) then the ELK would allow or I found easier in a third party software.

Like he said.

Elk has its own software, you might just like a 3rd party software for various reasons. iphone for example has a 3rd party ios software called ekeypad. Elk doesn't make its own iphone software but it does make its own software for pc and its touchpads. A lot of it is personal preferance. It is always nice to have options! Proprietery stuff stinks!

 

[reko19]

You can't just plug any 3rd party doohicky with a serial port into the Elk and expect it to work. Elk has to have a firmware for it.

Forgive me my ignorance, but what is the advantage then to Elk as compared to a regular security system with let's say Vera 2 for Zwave control? I was thinking that I am gaining an ability to control botht automation and security hru Elk.

 

[drozwood90]

The only thing I was thinking of running Cat3 to is a stand alone telephone.

I'd still go with CAT5. Why not have the extra wires there?

Think about people with a 2 wire thermostat. Then they want to add an "automated" thermostat. Now they have to pull a new wire, since most of those are 3+ wire.

Why limit yourself now? Especially since you are not really saving anything in the cost of the wire. Besides, the contractors may just toss in the cost of one telephone pull (mine did), since the cost of the wire is negligible if you are running so much around the house.

--Dan

 

[drozwood90]

put conduit instead.

If you can afford it, I agree...this is REALLY the way to go, if you can afford it + get an agreement to have it put in, or put it in.

Dan (Electron) almost had me convinced to do it. BUT my contractor came back and said that I couldn't do that (blah blah). So, I couldn't run the conduit...I pulled the wires instead...I mean someone came into the job site and left a bunch of wires in the walls...in just the right locations all pulling back to one place in the house. Strange that a random stranger would do such a thing...

The way Dan got me to really consider it...he told me HOW one would pull wires afterwards. Basically, you put a large "puff" ball on the end of a string. Then stuff that into the hole where you want to start the wire(s) from. Then take a small (or large if you need) shop vac to the hole where you want the wire to end up. Hook the vac. into the hole. Turn on the vac. Eventually the puff ball will make it to the hole where the shop vac is.

Then, on the other end, tie the wire to the string and go back and pull. How much easier can it get?? No thinking. All you have to do is have large enough j-boxes to put whatever you want in there.

--Dan

 

[drozwood90]

I am also putting some EMPTY conduit from the basement to the attic for future runs.

This is a must. I put in a few of these. It's easier to pull to the top floor through this, than to try to get through walls of the 1st floor to get access to the floor of the second.

Easier to just pop in from the ceiling of the top and from the floor of the 1st (through the basement).

--Dan

 

[reko19]

This is a must. I put in a few of these. It's easier to pull to the top floor through this, than to try to get through walls of the 1st floor to get access to the floor of the second.

Easier to just pop in from the ceiling of the top and from the floor of the 1st (through the basement).

--Dan

Guys, I am all for flexibility. However, I am dealing with a modern home with no basement and no attic (roof deck). I am planning to place some conduits in for future, but for the most parts I need to have wires installed.

 

[apostolakisl]

Guys, I am all for flexibility. However, I am dealing with a modern home with no basement and no attic (roof deck). I am planning to place some conduits in for future, but for the most parts I need to have wires installed.

Oooh, I would rethink that. You of all people should absolutely put conduit in. With no attic and no basement/crawl space, you have no prayer of ever running a new wire without tearing out walls. At least with attic/basement and 6 foot drill bits, you have a chance.

I look at it this way. Wires will always be better than wireless. It will be more secure and it will handle more bandwidth. Wire standards will always be getting upgraded to better ones. You may say, wireless can handle all the bandwidth I need, but you don't know. Maybe we will be doing holograms or something that requires terabit speed 10 years from now. Wires will always be one step ahead and anyone who can drop new wires easily is going to have it best.

 

[drozwood90]

Oooh, I would rethink that. You of all people should absolutely put conduit in. With no attic and no basement/crawl space, you have no prayer of ever running a new wire without tearing out walls. At least with attic/basement and 6 foot drill bits, you have a chance.

I look at it this way. Wires will always be better than wireless. It will be more secure and it will handle more bandwidth. Wire standards will always be getting upgraded to better ones. You may say, wireless can handle all the bandwidth I need, but you don't know. Maybe we will be doing holograms or something that requires terabit speed 10 years from now. Wires will always be one step ahead and anyone who can drop new wires easily is going to have it best.

+1

or maybe even +2 ;-)

 

[Neurorad]

yeah, skip the cat3 - use cat5e or cat6 for telephone - male RJ11 connector (phone cord) fits into a female RJ45 connector (ethernet cable)

conduit to TV locations, install cables outside of the empty conduit

don't forget the front door automation - hound releasing, etc

 

[pete_c]

I have both conduit and run cables in the two houses. Still not enough. I'm lucky in the Midwest with both a large attic and basement access to the main floor and second floor. My basement to attic run is a one shot cavity that run cables in from the basement to the attic. I have "access" panels on the main and second floor for adding more cable and leave an unused cat5e wire in place to pull more cable. Its worked fine now for the last 5 years or so; it is pretty full though. In the FL home I prewired and put conduit in place. I've needed to add more via the conduit and its worked fine. There is no basement there; and the attic is difficult to work in (blown insulation) so the conduits work well there. I did pull all of the cable to one central area in the home. The attic space above the area has sheets of plywood and lighting such that I can bring more wires down into the MM panel. Its a much smaller space to work with versus the Midwest home and the conduit has helped a bunch. The alarm cabling was done by an alarm contractor which helped tremendously because he wired every window, sliding glass door and door along with multiple cables for IR sensors and Keypads; today all used. For the audio, video, network and telephone my wife and I did it in two days on a weekend. The contractor had no issues with our doing the cabling during one one weekend. The difficult part was the high ceilings and walls being to a level where I needed a high ladder.

 

[reko19]

I know that having conduits in place will save major headaches, I am with you just need to decide on the approach. My plan was to bring two 2" conduits from the closet into a ceiling of each floor (maybe one to the ceiling and one to TV location). I thought I was pretty generous with the cabling to each TV location I listed in my first post. Agree on CAT5 comment, no CAT3.

Back to my other question. What is the advantage to Elk (or Omni)as compared to a regular security system with let's say Vera 2 for Zwave control? If I still have to use 3rd party with a serial port into the Elk. I was thinking that I am gaining an ability to control both automation and security thru Elk via single software interface.

 

[apostolakisl]

A regular security system won't integrate alarm issues with anything else. For example, push one button, turn lights off, turn tv off, turn alarm on, turn water off, turn stereo off, send you an email, close garage door. I have that scenario at my house. Most of those things are done by the Elk alone, but the lights, stereo, and tv are from the Elk telling my ISY it has armed and the ISY does some of the lighting and via my itach sends IR commands to the tv's and stereo's in the house.

Open a door, turns lights on. Motion detectors turn lights on and set off motion alarm when system armed away. Most security systems won't play with light controllers, relays, and any other third party stuff.

If you want your alarm to just be an alarm then don't get an HAI or Elk. But if you expect to use a single interface to control all of these things, you should get an Elk or HAI.

There is no single brand, do it all device out there. You will need to bring different companies together and whether you stick to the software/hardware from the same co, or you do software from one company and hardware from another is your choice. The beauty here, is that you have a choice. You are free to chose one co becuase you love their hardware and this won't force you to use their software.

 

[reko19]

A regular security system won't integrate alarm issues with anything else. For example, push one button, turn lights off, turn tv off, turn alarm on, turn water off, turn stereo off, send you an email, close garage door. I have that scenario at my house. Most of those things are done by the Elk alone, but the lights, stereo, and tv are from the Elk telling my ISY it has armed and the ISY does some of the lighting and via my itach sends IR commands to the tv's and stereo's in the house.

Open a door, turns lights on. Motion detectors turn lights on and set off motion alarm when system armed away. Most security systems won't play with light controllers, relays, and any other third party stuff.

If you want your alarm to just be an alarm then don't get an HAI or Elk. But if you expect to use a single interface to control all of these things, you should get an Elk or HAI.

Using ELK as an example, what do I need to control UPB or Zwave? They list M1XZW as Zwave interface which according to their web site is discontinued according to reviews not so great, nothing on UPB. This why I am getting confused. I would expect this to be a built-in functionality or a module being available from Elk to interface with either one???

 

[apostolakisl]

Using ELK as an example, what do I need to control UPB or Zwave? They list M1XZW as Zwave interface which according to their web site is discontinued according to reviews not so great, nothing on UPB. This why I am getting confused. I would expect this to be a built-in functionality or a module being available from Elk to interface with either one???

Insteon and UPB are quite similar in how they work. I can speak specifically to Insteon becuase that is what I have. The Elk has an XSP unit giving you a serial port that you set jumpers and firmware for Insteon (UPB just sets the jumpers different and you load a different firmware). This plugs directly into a PLM (power line modem). A PLM does what its name implies, it puts data on and takes it off of power lines. Insteon and UPB each have their own PLM's to pick from. The XSP unit plugs into the PLM allowing Elk to push power line commands onto the power lines and receive them off the power lines.

Also, the Elk has the XEP unit (ethernet protocol). If you have a controller that works via IP you don't need the XSP. For example, I have a Universal Devices ISY unit. The Elk talks via IP to the ISY and the ISY connects to the PLM. If you do Elk, you definitely need the XEP. The XEP should probably just come with it if you ask me. The XEP gives you intranet and internet access to your unit. This opens up using tablets, smart phones, and pcs to run the show, in addition to talking to third party controllers like ISY or PC/software driven controllers.

Think of the Elk kind of like you think of a computer. On a pc you can load windows, linux, or google operating systems. You can connect all kinds of hardware peripherals to it. This is the idea with your HA system, you are buying various hardware and software and piecing it all together to make the system you want. The better the software, the more seemless the integration. Imagine if you bought a Compaq computer and it only worked on a compaq OS, compaq software, compaq peripherals, and only talked to other compaq computers. Kind of limiting.