New Home Theater Setup - Need control advice

[PiperPilot]

Hey guys...its that time...I'm looking to revamp the family TV setup. I have been putting this off for a long time, but am finally gonna do it. I am narrowing things down but the more I research, the more questions I end up with. Let me start by detailing some of the stuff I have decided, or at least narrowed it down to.

TV: A buddy is going to let me use his ~ 2 year old, only used twice 42" LG LCD TV (Free is good). Eventually I will probably get a 50" or bigger DLP

Receiver: Want RS232 control, needs to interface with HomeSeer and MainLobby. Looking at the Harman Kardon AVR-354

HTPC: Have done a lot of research here, narrowed down to a homebuilt model featuring all quiet/energy effecient components. This media server will be my main house fileserver with 3x1TB drives (WD GreenPower) in a RAID5 setup. The media server will also run HS server as well as MainLobby server and client.

HD cable comes from Verizon FIOS and I will be swapping out my existing non-HD DVR for their HD version.

I would like to install all components in a hall linen closet that is about 30-40 feet (cable run) from the TV location if possible and only have the TV out and visible.

SOOOO...The big question is...I need to make the new setup as wife friendly as possible. I need to have a "Standard" remote control and eventually I will also get something like a Samsung Q1 for remote touchscreen. How would you suggest setting up the remote control? Get something that is a PC remote control that can plug into the HTPC and control the components via HS/Mainlobby with either RS232 or IR? Get a universal programable remote that she can use to do "Dumb" stuff like watching TV and keep the more advanced automated control for me?

Suggestions? I think most are going to say go down the PC remote path...what are the gotchas and what is the most reliable hardwere? I also would really need an RF remote I think but don't want to spend a fortune either as I will be getting a lot of new stuff all at the same time here.

Thanks!

PiperPilot

 

[Neurorad]

Hey guys...its that time...I'm looking to revamp the family TV setup. I have been putting this off for a long time, but am finally gonna do it. I am narrowing things down but the more I research, the more questions I end up with. Let me start by detailing some of the stuff I have decided, or at least narrowed it down to.

TV: A buddy is going to let me use his ~ 2 year old, only used twice 42" LG LCD TV (Free is good). Eventually I will probably get a 50" or bigger DLP

Receiver: Want RS232 control, needs to interface with HomeSeer and MainLobby. Looking at the Harman Kardon AVR-354

HTPC: Have done a lot of research here, narrowed down to a homebuilt model featuring all quiet/energy effecient components. This media server will be my main house fileserver with 3x1TB drives (WD GreenPower) in a RAID5 setup. The media server will also run HS server as well as MainLobby server and client.

HD cable comes from Verizon FIOS and I will be swapping out my existing non-HD DVR for their HD version.

I would like to install all components in a hall linen closet that is about 30-40 feet (cable run) from the TV location if possible and only have the TV out and visible.

SOOOO...The big question is...I need to make the new setup as wife friendly as possible. I need to have a "Standard" remote control and eventually I will also get something like a Samsung Q1 for remote touchscreen. How would you suggest setting up the remote control? Get something that is a PC remote control that can plug into the HTPC and control the components via HS/Mainlobby with either RS232 or IR? Get a universal programable remote that she can use to do "Dumb" stuff like watching TV and keep the more advanced automated control for me?

Suggestions? I think most are going to say go down the PC remote path...what are the gotchas and what is the most reliable hardwere? I also would really need an RF remote I think but don't want to spend a fortune either as I will be getting a lot of new stuff all at the same time here.

Thanks!

PiperPilot

Sounds like you would want a DIY solution, rather than an RTI or URC remote.

If you want a top of the line URC or RTI setup, you can buy it from a 'friendly' retailer who supplies the software (e.g. Mike at Surfremotes.com). If you want to do a full-fledged PC-based system from the ground up, use MainLobby or CQC.

If you want someone else to program the remote, find a friendly local custom installer (CI) who will give the software to you, to allow you to update it, after he installs it.

If you want to say 'abracadabra' and have a user-friendly system from the get-go, pick up the phone and call a local CI. Any one of them would be more than happy to set you up with an awesome systemm, as user-friendly as you want it.


Since you're starting with a remote control, check out remotecentral.com and avsforum.com remote control subforum.

Lots to learn and lots of decisions. Up to you.

 

[sic0048]

I do basically everything that you are looking for (I use CQC as my control system). I picked up some used Integra Receivers off E-Bay. They are serial controllable (basically the entire line is I believe) and can be picked up pretty cheaply.

As far as a HTPC goes - what exactly are you expecting to do with it? It's pretty hard to make a quiet PC even with todays parts. Of course if it is going to be in a closet 40' away, it really doesn't matter how quiet it is. However, if you are looking for a DVR and DVD playing system, I would recommend looking at SageTV and their Sage HD extenders. You'll still need a computer to act as a media server (with your big hard drives), but the extender can play virtually anything you throw at it (there are some things it doesn't play, so check to make sure if you are playing something out of the ordinary), and the fact that they are a self contained hardware unit is priceless IMHO. You don't have to spend all your time tweaking and playing with codexes, etc to try and get good playback. It just works.

As far as control goes.... I use a Harmony IR remote (a Harmony 550 to be exact) but instead of loading in all the profiles for all the components I use, I just use 1 or 2. Then my CQC system reads the IR command (play for example) and determines which device is being used (could be Sage extenders, DVD player, Pandora Radio, 2 different CD feeds from my ripped media on the computer, etc) and plays the correct device. So my remote is sending out the same "Play" command and CQC does all the leg work. This prevents the IR from getting out of synch with the system and also provides quicker response. Before getting the CQC system, I used a JP1 remote to control everything. The problem is that some macros literally take 10-15 seconds to complete if it requires waiting on a device to initialize (like waiting for the TV to warm up when it is turn on, etc). If you didn't hold the remote at the devices that entire time, it wouldn't work. With the current system, the remote never sends out more than 1 command, so it takes a fraction of a second. CQC does all the rest including sending out the entire macro which still may take 10-15 seconds to complete. But the end user doesn't have to hold the remote during this time.

I have a Q1 and used it in the room as a touch screen. In the end I didn't like using it. I think most people generally agree once they actually use a touch screen like that. It's great "bling" and fun to show off, but it generally isn't practical for real life use. So I have programmed my system to do everything off the IR remote now. I can even browse CD and DVD covers using the remote. You can do this via the SageTV system pretty easily. I actually use some HP thin clients that are hidden behind the TV that function as a CQC interface viewer, but it can be done using nothing but the SageTV system.

Good luck. You should have no problem doing what you want with the right equipment and control system. It just takes time and money!

 

[PiperPilot]

Thanks everyone for the comments. Lets further clarify a little.

What am I using the HTPC for?

- Primarily I am building a new system to get rid of 2 PCs in my office. This new PC will be more powerfull and use less power and generate less heat. It will run my Homeseer and Mainlobby servers. Those systems control more than just the home theater, I have lighting, HVAC, Security, Power monitoring, etc. Home theater is one of the last things I am tackling.
- HTPC tasks that I would like to have built in are
* BlueRay Player
* MP3 jukebox (probably with MusicLobby and JRiver Media Center)
* Potentially play Netflix or other streaming sources
* Smart Remote control
* Photo Slideshows

I guess the number one reason for integrating my home control system into the Home Theater system is to allow me to get some additional "Smart" features from the remote. Sic0048 I like how you said you have your system set up. The only thing that is a little different about mine is that the remote would need to be RF if I am going to put the HTPC, etc in the linen closet, otherwise I won't really have a way for the IR to get to the PC.

I'll check out those websites/forums and see what I can dig up and post back what options I am looking at.

Thanks,
PiperPilot

 

[DavidL]

Thanks everyone for the comments. Lets further clarify a little.

What am I using the HTPC for?

- Primarily I am building a new system to get rid of 2 PCs in my office. This new PC will be more powerfull and use less power and generate less heat. It will run my Homeseer and Mainlobby servers. Those systems control more than just the home theater, I have lighting, HVAC, Security, Power monitoring, etc. Home theater is one of the last things I am tackling.
- HTPC tasks that I would like to have built in are
* BlueRay Player
* MP3 jukebox (probably with MusicLobby and JRiver Media Center)
* Potentially play Netflix or other streaming sources
* Smart Remote control
* Photo Slideshows

I guess the number one reason for integrating my home control system into the Home Theater system is to allow me to get some additional "Smart" features from the remote. Sic0048 I like how you said you have your system set up. The only thing that is a little different about mine is that the remote would need to be RF if I am going to put the HTPC, etc in the linen closet, otherwise I won't really have a way for the IR to get to the PC.

I'll check out those websites/forums and see what I can dig up and post back what options I am looking at.

Thanks,
PiperPilot

PiperPilot,
MainLobby is perfect for what you are looking to do:

SageTV integration
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki/index.php?...MLSageTV_Plugin
Supports video / photo / music playback

Photos:
http://talluscorp.com/mediawiki/index.php?...otoAlbum_Plugin

NetFlix:
http://www.cinemaronlineforums.com/forum/v...pic.php?t=13629

BluRay playback supported via either ArcSoftTMT or PowerDVD integration and DVDLobby 3.75

As far as IR:
http://www.shop.talluscorp.com/product.sc?...mp;productId=42
You can put a IR receiver anywhere in sight of your IR remote and run a wire from the receiver to the USBIR6 located in the PC.

MusicLobby / J River is the ticket for mp3s.


I am putting together a precanned setup to do exactly what you are looking for.
You can then customize as far as you want to go from there.

David

 

[Helheim]

I have a Q1 and used it in the room as a touch screen. In the end I didn't like using it. I think most people generally agree once they actually use a touch screen like that. It's great "bling" and fun to show off, but it generally isn't practical for real life use. So I have programmed my system to do everything off the IR remote now. I can even browse CD and DVD covers using the remote.

I have a Q1 and Harmony 550 as well. I like using the Q1 for selecting which DVD, TV show, or CD to listen/watch, for me it’s just faster than scrolling with a remote, but use the 550 for the rest.

 

[sic0048]

I guess I forgot to mention that I use a xantech IR repeater system to get my IR signals from the family room to the computer closet. You can get a complete package (IR sensor, power supply, IR emitters, and the distriubtion block) for about $100-$150. But you must also have a USB-UIRT to get those IR signals into the computer.

The device that David linked to is fine, and it is a 6 output zoned device as well as a 1 input zone receiver. So it is basically a USB-UIRT on steroids. But since the receiver plugs into the unit, hopefully you could "extend" the receiver all the way to the family room via some cat5e wires. That way the IR signals from the remote would be picked up and send to the computer where it could either act on it (if serial controlled devices used) or send the proper IR signal to the IR controlled device if necessary.

If you don't already have a USB-UIRT then that solution might be worth it. If you do own a USB-UIRT already, then I would suggest just getting a IR repeater system (like the xantech) to get the signals from the room to the USB-UIRT which will be located at the computer.

Another possiblity is if you know you will only want IR control in one room is to use a USB-UIRT and simply use a USB extender to physically place the US-UIRT in the family room. Then connect it to the computer via cat5e wire and the use of the USB extenders. You can pick up the extenders for about $30. I use several of those units for other uses in my house and they all work great. The drawback is that the USB-UIRT is going to be in the family room, so it is limited to receiving IR signals from that 1 room. If you ever want to control the system from more than one room, then you will need to buy a IR repeater system in the future and move the USB-UIRT back to the computer and use the repeater system to bring the IR signals to the USB-UIRT.

Hopefully this all makes sense. I guess the short answer is that there are several possibilities to capture IR signals. There is no right or wrong answer here. It just depends on what your current and future needs are going to be.

 

[PiperPilot]

As far as IR:
http://www.shop.talluscorp.com/product.sc?...mp;productId=42
You can put a IR receiver anywhere in sight of your IR remote and run a wire from the receiver to the USBIR6 located in the PC.

David,

I checked out the USBIR6 on the link you provided. It sounds really good and simple. Two questions:

1. How far can the receiver unit be extended away from the HTPC where the card is installed.
2. How far can one of the transmit zones be extended?

I would need that those units to be approximately a 40-50 foot cable run from the PC. Reciever obviously to pick up the remote control and the transmitter to control the LCD TV.

Another question as well about the Xantec solution. If I used that as a distribution system, would it give me the option to switch to the factory remote or another universal remote if I had PC/control issues? I think that flexibility would be helpfull in the event that I end up having control issues. Is the USB-UIRT reliable? I have seen a lot of issues on the USB-UIRT forums and seems like there isn't a whole lot of support for the module and plugin.

Either way it looks like I am going to spend around $200 for a remote IR control system...I just want the best option!

Thanks,
PiperPilot

 

[sic0048]

As far as IR:
http://www.shop.talluscorp.com/product.sc?...mp;productId=42
You can put a IR receiver anywhere in sight of your IR remote and run a wire from the receiver to the USBIR6 located in the PC.

Another question as well about the Xantec solution. If I used that as a distribution system, would it give me the option to switch to the factory remote or another universal remote if I had PC/control issues? I think that flexibility would be helpfull in the event that I end up having control issues. Is the USB-UIRT reliable? I have seen a lot of issues on the USB-UIRT forums and seems like there isn't a whole lot of support for the module and plugin.

Either way it looks like I am going to spend around $200 for a remote IR control system...I just want the best option!

Thanks,
PiperPilot

If you go with the repeater system, it does work independantly of the computer. But you might not have emitters attached to devices that you were controlling through the computer. So if the computer goes down, everything might not work. But anything that had an IR emitter attached to would still keep working just fine.

I haven't seen any people complain about the USB-UIRT, but I haven't go out on the USB-UIRT forum either. I've seen nothing but good remarks out of people. It seems that the device works well.

 

[PiperPilot]

Thanks again! Looks like a repeater might give me a quick way to move things into the closet before I get the entire computer control system set up. Does anyone have any idea of distance constraints on the receiver/transmitter components of the repeater? I see some comments on using thicker wire AWG22 for example to make sure you get the longest distance but no one mentions limitations. I am guessing since a lot of these systems are designed for whole house distribution that my little setup of 50ish feet wouldn't be an issue.

Last, does anyone have any feedback on the Buffalo Electronics solution? Looks to be quite a bit cheaper.

PiperPilot

 

[sic0048]

I use cat5e wire on my system. It's also what several of the manufatures recommend. The IR receivers generally only use 3 wires: a 12v (or 5v) positive, a ground wire, and a IR signal wire. Most of the specs I have read recommend that you put the + and signal wire on one twisted pair, and combine another twisted pair together and use it for the ground. That way you effectively double the gauge of the ground wire. You still only use 2 pairs of wire.

50' shouldn't be a problem IMHO.

I personally do not have any experince with Buffalo components. I do know that they are different enough from xantech that you cannot mix the systems together. That is why I haven' used them since I got started with xantech. I believe there are a couple of other manufactures that work with xanech (Nile might be one - I don't remember off hand), but Buffalo isn't one of them.

PS - check the for sale forum here because someone recently had some Buffalo IR stuff for sale. It wasn't a complete system, but you could probably save some money by buying used here and then fill out the neccessary equipment by buying new. (I looked at the devices myself, but that is when I found out that the Buffalo stuff isn't compatible with xantech).